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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Thomas Shey" data-source="post: 9340931" data-attributes="member: 7026617">Yup.The problem is that 4e wanted to have its cake and eat it too, here.  It was using what appeared to likely be an effect based underpinning, but it didn't want to actually tell you what that underpinning was (likely because it is not what people in the D&D sphere are used to, and as noted, sometime seem to actively dislike for purely emotional/taste based reasons).  The net effect was the ability in most effect based systems to compact some similar mechanical elements to save space and cognitive load mostly wasn't there; all you had were the assembled chunks which ended up having at least 80% of the usual problem with exception based design, while still feeling samey to the people hostile to it.</blockquote>