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<blockquote data-quote="Jer" data-source="post: 4236632" data-attributes="member: 19857">Actually given what we've seen there ARE pure elementals left.&nbsp; They're called &quot;archons&quot;. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />On another note - I'm not seeing how angels are &quot;elemental&quot; beings myself.&nbsp; The angels we've seen so far seem to be &quot;energy&quot; beings, not &quot;elemental&quot; beings (at least, not how I think of &quot;elemental&quot; beings at any rate).&nbsp; I know 3e kind of blurred the distinction between &quot;energy&quot; and &quot;element&quot; by tying different energies to elements, and I know that &quot;fire&quot; ends up being both an &quot;energy&quot; and an &quot;element&quot;, but I'm still not seeing angels as elemental beings.&nbsp; And, yeah, I understand the argument about angels not being Biblical Angels.&nbsp; I think there are ways to make the angels more like Biblical angels if that worries you.&nbsp; Change the fluff so that they're created by the gods instead of pledged to them, tie particular types of angels to particular types of gods (the god of vengeance has only Angels of Vengeance, the god of battle has only angels of Valor, etc.) and you're done.&nbsp;&nbsp; I think you have to write off a number of different angels as opponents to the PCs if you do this (at least the servitors of the non-evil gods), or you have to rename them (Angels of Valor become Angels of Fury or something for an evil god), but I don't think the tweaking will actually be all that bad.&nbsp; I can see where the 4e designers are going with this and I'm personally willing to go along for the ride on this one, but I can also see where folks might want a more traditional approach and&nbsp; might see this approach lacking.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Jer, post: 4236632, member: 19857"] Actually given what we've seen there ARE pure elementals left. They're called "archons". :) On another note - I'm not seeing how angels are "elemental" beings myself. The angels we've seen so far seem to be "energy" beings, not "elemental" beings (at least, not how I think of "elemental" beings at any rate). I know 3e kind of blurred the distinction between "energy" and "element" by tying different energies to elements, and I know that "fire" ends up being both an "energy" and an "element", but I'm still not seeing angels as elemental beings. And, yeah, I understand the argument about angels not being Biblical Angels. I think there are ways to make the angels more like Biblical angels if that worries you. Change the fluff so that they're created by the gods instead of pledged to them, tie particular types of angels to particular types of gods (the god of vengeance has only Angels of Vengeance, the god of battle has only angels of Valor, etc.) and you're done. I think you have to write off a number of different angels as opponents to the PCs if you do this (at least the servitors of the non-evil gods), or you have to rename them (Angels of Valor become Angels of Fury or something for an evil god), but I don't think the tweaking will actually be all that bad. I can see where the 4e designers are going with this and I'm personally willing to go along for the ride on this one, but I can also see where folks might want a more traditional approach and might see this approach lacking. [/QUOTE]

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