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Excerpt: Economies [merged]
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<blockquote data-quote="gizmo33" data-source="post: 4225079" data-attributes="member: 30001"><p>This makes no sense to me. I'm not sure what you mean but my calculations made no assumptions about finding a buyer for an item for free. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>But I'm not assuming that at all. I'm not saying that a merchant has to buy a magic item for the 10,000 gp that it's worth and turn around and sell if for 10,000 gp. In fact this statement seems to so willfully ignore a lot of what I've said on this issue that I don't really know where to start. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I wouldn't bet that at all. In fact, barring any actual information to support this I can't distinguish this from a person who's just randomly making up numbers. the conditions under which a lot of these items were traded, like monopolies on spices or local shortages or whatever, need to be considered. I also don't think that the relationship between merchants and nobles in terms of taxes and authority and such is uniform across Europe for the time period. That your statements here don't take these complexities into account leaves me with the strong impression that you're just making this up off the top of your head. </p><p></p><p>In fact, in terms of asking me what a merchants profits would be, I would be inclined to work backwards from their standard of living. Say, just picking a number out of the air (and the DMG could provide specifics), that a merchant lives on 200 gp/month. That completely makes no sense if you're suggesting that the merchant can regularly make transactions that net him 8,000 gp profit. You could make the case if you propose that the profession of "magic item merchant" is so prohibitive, and so resource-intensive that such merchants are the princes among princes of the merchant class. Proposing that finding a buyer for a +1 sword is so difficult that only the very best can do it. So far as I've seen though, no one on your side of the argument has bothered to consider these factors in any sort of detail.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Why indeed. But your statement here is based on an otherwise unsupported assertion that 4:1 is historical or reasonable for iron goods. And that's *not* the same thing as saying that the price of iron from point of purchase to it's final sale price doesn't undergo a 4:1 increase - but such a thing is not really relevant to the profits of a single merchant and single transaction.</p><p></p><p>Again - I know a lot of people on this board fancy themselves as historians to some degree - so feel free to support these assertions with an actual analogy.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This makes an (IMO unwarranted) assumption that the merchant in question has steady access to trading goods for the same outlay. I also think that the transportation/storage/etc. costs of 8,000 gp worth of grain would far exceed that of a 10,000 gp magic item. And I realize that you could be sitting on a mountain of statistical information and actual facts upon which your basing your guidelines for an "incompetent merchant", but I can't tell.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="gizmo33, post: 4225079, member: 30001"] This makes no sense to me. I'm not sure what you mean but my calculations made no assumptions about finding a buyer for an item for free. But I'm not assuming that at all. I'm not saying that a merchant has to buy a magic item for the 10,000 gp that it's worth and turn around and sell if for 10,000 gp. In fact this statement seems to so willfully ignore a lot of what I've said on this issue that I don't really know where to start. I wouldn't bet that at all. In fact, barring any actual information to support this I can't distinguish this from a person who's just randomly making up numbers. the conditions under which a lot of these items were traded, like monopolies on spices or local shortages or whatever, need to be considered. I also don't think that the relationship between merchants and nobles in terms of taxes and authority and such is uniform across Europe for the time period. That your statements here don't take these complexities into account leaves me with the strong impression that you're just making this up off the top of your head. In fact, in terms of asking me what a merchants profits would be, I would be inclined to work backwards from their standard of living. Say, just picking a number out of the air (and the DMG could provide specifics), that a merchant lives on 200 gp/month. That completely makes no sense if you're suggesting that the merchant can regularly make transactions that net him 8,000 gp profit. You could make the case if you propose that the profession of "magic item merchant" is so prohibitive, and so resource-intensive that such merchants are the princes among princes of the merchant class. Proposing that finding a buyer for a +1 sword is so difficult that only the very best can do it. So far as I've seen though, no one on your side of the argument has bothered to consider these factors in any sort of detail. Why indeed. But your statement here is based on an otherwise unsupported assertion that 4:1 is historical or reasonable for iron goods. And that's *not* the same thing as saying that the price of iron from point of purchase to it's final sale price doesn't undergo a 4:1 increase - but such a thing is not really relevant to the profits of a single merchant and single transaction. Again - I know a lot of people on this board fancy themselves as historians to some degree - so feel free to support these assertions with an actual analogy. This makes an (IMO unwarranted) assumption that the merchant in question has steady access to trading goods for the same outlay. I also think that the transportation/storage/etc. costs of 8,000 gp worth of grain would far exceed that of a 10,000 gp magic item. And I realize that you could be sitting on a mountain of statistical information and actual facts upon which your basing your guidelines for an "incompetent merchant", but I can't tell. [/QUOTE]
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