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Message: <blockquote data-quote="small pumpkin man" data-source="post: 4197321" data-attributes="member: 57910">EXACTLY.Which is simulated far better in 4e by just taking skill training theivery. (or in 3.x by taking that feat from races of destiny, although even that becomes less useful later on)Yeah, that's exactly what I said. I said "I want to be able to do everything and be a complete munchkin", in fact, here's the quote*sigh*Look, I realize CR isn't exact, but when one 6th level Rogue and one 6th level Wizard is worth one level 8 Wizard I think we can safely say someone playing a character who has 6th level Rogue abilities and 6th level Wizard abilities isn't actually able to effect the world like a 12th level character is. No, he can't use it to make a reasonable difference to appropriate level encounters, meaning he might as well not be able to do it all.Yes, duh, obviously a tradeoff needs to be made, this is basic designer stuff.  But finding that balance is not as obvious as you seem to think, as far as I can tell, it's one of the toughest problems in game design, there are extensive articles about this on Wizard's very site, about the Bard etc, and about how they put far too much importance on the "generalist" aspect for Bards and monks, and far too little in the case of the pure spellcasters various abilities, even Hong has made about 6-7 posts in this very thread saying "we don't need to get into that argument again" but there's always someone, sin't there?</blockquote>

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