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Message: <blockquote data-quote="katahn" data-source="post: 4197727" data-attributes="member: 65004">How exactly have they eliminated multiclassing?  All I see is that two specific forms of multiclassing are basically gone: the 1e/2e system where you levelled simultaneously in multiple classes and the 3e system where you serially levelled multiple classes.  Those are not the be-all and end-all of multiclassing systems.At its core, multiclassing just means having abilities/powers that come from more than just one class.  This fits that very general definition.In 1e/2e multiclasses were simply better than single-class variants.  Being a level or 2 down in each multiclass compared to a single-class character was not enough to balance our having equivilent power in multiple other classes.  Playing a single-class character was a dumb move unless you were dealing with games beyond the non-human level caps, and even then every non-human MC tended to involve "thief" which had no level limits...In 3e multiclassing absolutely did not work for spellcasting classes and was especially punative on arcane spellcasting classes.  The cumulative effect of fewer caster levels (to beat spell resistance), lower spell levels (enemies had an easier time with saving throws), fewer spells, and for arcane casters the need to use 'still spell' to get around spell failure exacerbated the lower spell level issue.  It took splatbooks and innumerable prestige classes to get around how incredibly disfunctional the multiclassing system in 3e was.Conversely in 4e I can begin at level 1 as an eladrin fighter(wizard) and have a bit of arcane magic use to add flavor to my fighter; for only that basic feat I can also freely select any wizard-as-prerequisite feats I might wish by adding them to the list of feats I can select from.  As I gain levels I can swap out selected fighter abilities in exchange for adding wizard abilities.  Paying for this priviledge in the form of feats balances what I see as a huge benefit of being able to select out-of-role and out-of-class abilities as a fighter.My 4e fighter/wizard can cast spells armored without needing to invest a feat to get the still spell metamagic feat.  My 3e fighter/wizard had to make that sacrifice and suffered above and beyond that the effective loss of my highest level of spells because I couldn't combine them with still spell.My 4e fighter/wizard's wizard spells will always be effective in a fight.  My 3e fighter/wizard's spells were easier to make saving throws against due to lower spell level and were far less likely to bypass spell resistance due to lower caster level relative to what the monsters were designed to be prepared for.My 4e fighter/wizard can elect to exchange a lower-level known spell for a higher-level spell without making any additional sacrifices of feats or class levels.  My 3e fighter/wizard could not do that.My 4e fighter/wizard is still a fully effective fighter who only lacks a bit of versatility in my core role in exchange for the added flexibility of wizard spells.  My 3e fighter/wizard will be anywhere from 5-10 levels behind any other fighter in a level 20 campaign and be noticeably less effective in his core role as a result - a loss of effectiveness that is not sufficiently redressed in having 5-10 levels of wizard without resorting to the hacked work-around of prestige classes.So please, explain to me how multiclassing doesn't really exist in 4e when it did in 3e.  Because I see traditional multiclassing in 3e that failed to live up to its promise far too often and I see this new variant form of multiclassing in 4e that does.</blockquote>

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