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<blockquote data-quote="AllisterH" data-source="post: 4203851" data-attributes="member: 51325">I think you might be getting Diplomacy and Intimidate mixed up. Diplomacy is basically convincing the target that your position on a topic is actually THEIR position on a topic.But that doesn't actually make you trustworthy in the eyes of the duke. At best, you're going to have the Duke say &quot;ok, I'll let you go there&quot; whereas the setup we have is that the players actively want the Duke to help them (&quot;providing troops, equipment, a writ of safe passage through another Duke's land&quot;). Again, this excerpt is too short but you're also assuming that the Duke doesn't KNOW what is out on the borderlands...Maybe he is cut out from regular reports or it is the base of a major military force for the KING and thus private non-military citizens including even the Duke aren't allowed thereWhy would they earn an automatic failure with the Bluff skill? If the PCs try to Bluff and say, &quot;There are horrible things like Worgs&quot; there, the Duke (the DM) s fully in his rights in my opinion to say, &quot;I know, I have had to send out parties to wipe out those worg packs&quot;. It wouldn't constitue a success but neither would it be a failure. Personally, I would allow a Bluff reroll if they PCs go on to describe a Guulvorg and mention that it was protecting the smaller worgs and the Duke or his men had never seen such a creature but had heard about it.The second part though, this is covered under Diplomacy. Intimidate _IS_&nbsp; how well you can communicate potential violence towards the subject by yourself if your words are not heeded by the subject.I can see why Celebrim was so unhappy as different players are going to interpret skill challenges differently.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="AllisterH, post: 4203851, member: 51325"] I think you might be getting Diplomacy and Intimidate mixed up. Diplomacy is basically convincing the target that your position on a topic is actually THEIR position on a topic. But that doesn't actually make you trustworthy in the eyes of the duke. At best, you're going to have the Duke say "ok, I'll let you go there" whereas the setup we have is that the players actively want the Duke to help them ("providing troops, equipment, a writ of safe passage through another Duke's land"). Again, this excerpt is too short but you're also assuming that the Duke doesn't KNOW what is out on the borderlands...Maybe he is cut out from regular reports or it is the base of a major military force for the KING and thus private non-military citizens including even the Duke aren't allowed there Why would they earn an automatic failure with the Bluff skill? If the PCs try to Bluff and say, "There are horrible things like Worgs" there, the Duke (the DM) s fully in his rights in my opinion to say, "I know, I have had to send out parties to wipe out those worg packs". It wouldn't constitue a success but neither would it be a failure. Personally, I would allow a Bluff reroll if they PCs go on to describe a Guulvorg and mention that it was protecting the smaller worgs and the Duke or his men had never seen such a creature but had heard about it. The second part though, this is covered under Diplomacy. Intimidate _IS_ how well you can communicate potential violence towards the subject by yourself if your words are not heeded by the subject. I can see why Celebrim was so unhappy as different players are going to interpret skill challenges differently. [/QUOTE]

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