Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="Primal" data-source="post: 4204185" data-attributes="member: 30678">As already mentioned, I think it is due to *this* particular Duke not being swayed by intimidation. And why not? Dukes and other nobles rarely take slights or threats likely -- and in most cases you're lucky if he doesn't order his men to kill you on the spot. How would you have handled it if any of your players (in 3.5) would try to get a local duke's help by saying: &quot;Listen, I'm gonna Intimidate this guy witless -- I'll tell him that I'll kill his wife and children if he doesn't give us his castle and all his wealth!&quot;. Would you have accepted that? Would you have even let him roll that check? And would you have ruled that there are consequences?Look, it's very easy to say that it's restrictive, but how many times have you denied your players a skill check that just didn't make sense in a certain situation? It's pretty obvious that although you *CAN* use Intimidation in the challenge, but it's just that the outcome is automatically negative. And if any of my players used Intimidation in such a situation in 3.5, I would probably let him, but there sure as hell would be repercussions -- whether he succeeded or not. Unless, of course, the duke was actually a villain or there was some other logical reason for PCs behaving that way.And let's not forget that this just an example -- I'm sure that Ari (and other playtesters) can confirm that this is not the &quot;only&quot; way to run a social skill check challenge in 4E. I'm sure that there are rules how to modify the given examples in various situations (i.e. when your players are involved in a skill challenge against an innkeeper).&nbsp; I was very doubtful of players abusing the &quot;big intent vs. small intent&quot; problem (which is also handled terribly even in some Indie RPGs), but to me it's clear that they've put some thought into this. I especially like how using certain skills open new options to use other skills. I may not like a lot of stuff in 4E, but I honestly believe that this system will actually *encourage* role-playing and character immersion.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Primal, post: 4204185, member: 30678"] As already mentioned, I think it is due to *this* particular Duke not being swayed by intimidation. And why not? Dukes and other nobles rarely take slights or threats likely -- and in most cases you're lucky if he doesn't order his men to kill you on the spot. How would you have handled it if any of your players (in 3.5) would try to get a local duke's help by saying: "Listen, I'm gonna Intimidate this guy witless -- I'll tell him that I'll kill his wife and children if he doesn't give us his castle and all his wealth!". Would you have accepted that? Would you have even let him roll that check? And would you have ruled that there are consequences? Look, it's very easy to say that it's restrictive, but how many times have you denied your players a skill check that just didn't make sense in a certain situation? It's pretty obvious that although you *CAN* use Intimidation in the challenge, but it's just that the outcome is automatically negative. And if any of my players used Intimidation in such a situation in 3.5, I would probably let him, but there sure as hell would be repercussions -- whether he succeeded or not. Unless, of course, the duke was actually a villain or there was some other logical reason for PCs behaving that way. And let's not forget that this just an example -- I'm sure that Ari (and other playtesters) can confirm that this is not the "only" way to run a social skill check challenge in 4E. I'm sure that there are rules how to modify the given examples in various situations (i.e. when your players are involved in a skill challenge against an innkeeper). I was very doubtful of players abusing the "big intent vs. small intent" problem (which is also handled terribly even in some Indie RPGs), but to me it's clear that they've put some thought into this. I especially like how using certain skills open new options to use other skills. I may not like a lot of stuff in 4E, but I honestly believe that this system will actually *encourage* role-playing and character immersion. [/QUOTE]

Verification