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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 4204278" data-attributes="member: 4937">Well sure, but can't you just ask, 'I want to use my history knowledge to see if I can remember anything important about the Duke's life.&quot;?Note, according to the provided framework you can't.&nbsp; Yes, you could just ignore the framework according to your judgement, but then its a 'flexible frame' (ei not a frame).That's entirely reasonable but nothing in the excerpt suggests that that is actually the rules.&nbsp; The excerpt suggests that a skill challenge has primary skills (those that the PCs are expected to attempt), and secondary skills (those which can be opened up by succeeding at a primary skill).&nbsp; Nothing in the description suggests that the challenge is expected to be resolved by anything other than 7-8 successes in diplomacy, bluff, and insight and possibly one optional success in history.&nbsp;&nbsp; Likewise, nothing in the excerpt suggests that in this case players aren't encouraged to sit back (possibly provide an 'aid other' action) and let the main charismatic character handle the majority of the encounter. While that's entirely reasonable, again nothing suggests that that is actually the rules as written.&nbsp; Nothing suggests that any skill check is ever responcible for multiple successes or failures or that it can invalidate previous successes or failures.&nbsp; If this is up to DM judgement, then we haven't really changed from where we've been in the past.Again, that's entirely reasonable and may be true of some skill challenges, in the example skill challenge nothing suggests that you aren't supposed to use a primary skill 8 times in a row. I half agree with you here.&nbsp; My problem is, why insist on 8 successes?&nbsp; However interesting the roleplay may be, I just don't see how 8-12 die rolls add anything to it in particular.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 4204278, member: 4937"] Well sure, but can't you just ask, 'I want to use my history knowledge to see if I can remember anything important about the Duke's life."? Note, according to the provided framework [i]you can't[/i]. Yes, you could just ignore the framework according to your judgement, but then its a 'flexible frame' (ei not a frame). That's entirely reasonable but nothing in the excerpt suggests that that is actually the rules. The excerpt suggests that a skill challenge has primary skills (those that the PCs are expected to attempt), and secondary skills (those which can be opened up by succeeding at a primary skill). Nothing in the description suggests that the challenge is expected to be resolved by anything other than 7-8 successes in diplomacy, bluff, and insight and possibly one optional success in history. Likewise, nothing in the excerpt suggests that in this case players aren't encouraged to sit back (possibly provide an 'aid other' action) and let the main charismatic character handle the majority of the encounter. While that's entirely reasonable, again nothing suggests that that is actually the rules as written. Nothing suggests that any skill check is ever responcible for multiple successes or failures or that it can invalidate previous successes or failures. If this is up to DM judgement, then we haven't really changed from where we've been in the past. Again, that's entirely reasonable and may be true of some skill challenges, in the example skill challenge nothing suggests that you aren't supposed to use a primary skill 8 times in a row. I half agree with you here. My problem is, why insist on 8 successes? However interesting the roleplay may be, I just don't see how 8-12 die rolls add anything to it in particular. [/QUOTE]

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