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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Cadfan" data-source="post: 4208235" data-attributes="member: 40961">Regarding TWF, and the possibility of feats granting powers generally.Its possible that feats will grant new at will powers.Certain powers are very unbalanced when it comes to granting them through a feat.  You can reason through and see why, if you try.  A 4e character has a certain power curve built into him.At will abilities1[W]+Stat+small effectUnlimited useEncounter abilities2[W]+Stat+small effectRestricted number based on levelPer Day abilities3[W]+Stat+small effectRestricted number based on levelThat's basically what you're looking at, with some variation.  For example, a per encounter ability might do 1[W]+stat+big effect.Now feats granting new powers could break this curve by giving the players more times per day that they could accomplish 2 or 3[W] than their level plans for them.  And since feats are considered less valuable resources than powers in 4e, it would be inappropriate to grant this by consuming feats.  That's probably why the multiclass feats all dropped the granted powers down a level, so that per encounter became per day, and at will became per encounter.But not every power has features which would break this planned power curve.  Specifically, at will attack powers might not break the power curve.At will powers that are not attacks, like the ranger's marking ability, can break the curve because making them available at will is close to a permanent damage bonus.At will powers that are attacks but which come coupled with very good special non damage bonuses can break the power curve because granting the power at will also grants the non damage bonus.But at will powers that primarily or solely do damage might NOT break the power curve, because if the damage is already comparable to the damage dealt by the class' other powers, all you're accomplishing is converting the method by which the damage is dealt.  You're not actually increasing the power at all.So, in other words.A Cleaving Fighter deals damage equal to 1[W]+Str+Str.  The second +Str goes to a second target, but this is the total damage dealt.If two weapon fighting is designed so that the weapons used for it, when you add their [W] values together, equal the [W] value of a two handed weapon, then this comes out the same.Watch.Two handed fighting: 1[W1]+Str+StrTwo weapon fighting: 1[W2]+Str+1[W3]+Str where W1=W2+W3This changes almost nothing about the characters damage output. The only things that change are:1. TWF gets a slight benefit in that it can be used against a single opponent and Cleave requires two targets to work.  2. In the long term, two weapons can have more magical options on them than a single weapon.  This is the biggie.  On critical hits under 4e rules, two weapons beats one weapon once you have magical enhancements, because, while the [W] being maximized is smaller, the +1d6 per enhancement bonus is a flat boost applied to two items instead of just one.  Plus, since weapons can get powerful per encounter enhancements, the TWF wielder could get twice as many.I don't know how much of a problem those last two issue are.  But the general principle, that extra at will attack powers don't automatically bust the power curve, still stands.  If a power doesn't grant an extra [W] damage, or a new, valuable type of effect, it can fit cleanly into the established power curve.</blockquote>

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