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<blockquote data-quote="Heahengel" data-source="post: 4225535" data-attributes="member: 52037">To Aria:You complain that they print books that encourage player entitlement and therefore bad players.&nbsp; If they print the books constantly emphasizing that 'the DM decides everything' (even with the implicit idea that the DM should listen to the players) then that can encourage autocratic DMs and create more bad DMs.&nbsp; Bad DMs are at least as bad a problem and as frequent as bad players (wrt proportion of DMs to Players).Rule 0 needs to exist, but writing into the rules that the DM should decide everything about the way a campaign will be run and then tell that to the players is not a good thing in my opinion.&nbsp; (Editing this here for clarity: I have no problem with a DM coming up with a campaign and then listing the houserules.&nbsp; And if a player joins and immediately starts complaining about those rules, yeah thats annoying.&nbsp; But I don't think saying in the book that there is a base level and that DMs can deviate from it encourages this.&nbsp; That guy is either not bothering to read your rules, or is just being ridiculous.&nbsp; But even here, there is room for changing things to appeal to players joining the game, or to work with them for character concepts (there being a difference from a player wanting to work with you for a concept and a player wanting you to accept his concept and change your game).&nbsp; Starting a campaign with existing players, they should be included in the idea of the campaign much more.)If you want to DM your low magic setting, then you will want players who want to play that kind of game and then will work with you to make the campaign feel like that.&nbsp; They will avoid more magical classes (or possibly take them and play them as outcasts, what have you), and will describe wonder at finding a sword that burns as if it was covered in oil.If you are constantly having to cajole players to play that way, then they probably would prefer to play a different game.&nbsp; And yeah, it may be hard to find people to play that game with you, although I've certainly been willing to join very restrictive games in the past.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Heahengel, post: 4225535, member: 52037"] To Aria: You complain that they print books that encourage player entitlement and therefore bad players. If they print the books constantly emphasizing that 'the DM decides everything' (even with the implicit idea that the DM should listen to the players) then that can encourage autocratic DMs and create more bad DMs. Bad DMs are at least as bad a problem and as frequent as bad players (wrt proportion of DMs to Players). Rule 0 needs to exist, but writing into the rules that the DM should decide everything about the way a campaign will be run and then tell that to the players is not a good thing in my opinion. (Editing this here for clarity: I have no problem with a DM coming up with a campaign and then listing the houserules. And if a player joins and immediately starts complaining about those rules, yeah thats annoying. But I don't think saying in the book that there is a base level and that DMs can deviate from it encourages this. That guy is either not bothering to read your rules, or is just being ridiculous. But even here, there is room for changing things to appeal to players joining the game, or to work with them for character concepts (there being a difference from a player wanting to work with you for a concept and a player wanting you to accept his concept and change your game). Starting a campaign with existing players, they should be included in the idea of the campaign much more.) If you want to DM your low magic setting, then you will want players who want to play that kind of game and then will work with you to make the campaign feel like that. They will avoid more magical classes (or possibly take them and play them as outcasts, what have you), and will describe wonder at finding a sword that [I]burns as if it was covered in oil[/I]. If you are constantly having to cajole players to play that way, then they probably would prefer to play a different game. And yeah, it may be hard to find people to play that game with you, although I've certainly been willing to join very restrictive games in the past. [/QUOTE]

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