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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Shemeska" data-source="post: 4193093" data-attributes="member: 11697">About half of what I wrote can be found in 3.x sources mind you. I'm not exclusively mining from late 2e. Given that D&D predates me being alive, I hardly think it's shocking to reference a book from 1996. And for what 3e players might or might not recognize, perhaps I'm overly keen on planar stuff (probably true), but I never played before 3e either.I bring it up because I found the justification for some of 4e planar fluff (or some folks' comments about it) to ring a bit hollow when compared to how the same topics had been touched upon in earlier editions ("new" 4e ideas being not exactly so new: fiends being made distinct from gods, doing their own thing, etc). Follow my posts and what I replied to. It's not a giant leap of logic if you scroll back a page or so.Asmodeus didn't have stats in 2e either. In fact I can only think of 2 archfiends with stats during 2e, and I'd chalk up their entries to uncertainties at the time for how they were going to handle planar lords versus the statless gods of 2e. Except for Pazuzu and Grazz't, none of the others had stats (we can argue about material in the late 2e GtH being avatars or not). In the absence of stats we then have to rely on flavor text and in-game history to gauge the balance of power between the two. And while it varied depending on author, the gods tended to get manhandled on the planes at large if push came to shove, but generally the two groups had such divergent interests and spheres of influence they tended to not directly interact all that much and leave one another alone out of mutual enlightened self-interest.Or they come off looking relatively generic and not (yet at least) making sense to have a single, seemingly homogenous pool of deific servitors for evil gods. For what it's worth, I'm not entirely in favor of a monolithic angel/aasimon servitor race for good deities either.</blockquote>

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