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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Remathilis" data-source="post: 8311684" data-attributes="member: 7635">So this is my layman's look at things,Classical Fantasy (Tolkien et. all) holds the world was in a state of grace and has fallen from that grace, and it is the work of heroes to restore that grace. Whether that was a more enlightened era, a time of closeness with the Creator, or simply Innocence, the world as it is now no longer reflects that more perfect world and it is up to Just and Noble heroes to retore Eden/Camelot/whatever by banishing the darkness that has corrupted it.S&S assumes the world never was in that state of grace, or if it was, it can never return to it, so there is no Camelot to fight for. At the lighter end, you have people who are attempting to make it through life however they can, at the darker end, you get people doing what they can to eke out a few more moments aginast an almost assured destruction. So, while CF paints the world in the opposing teams of good and evil, S&S fights for no higher cause than itself. It is possible for people in CF to be selfish or S&S to be noble, but they are the exceptions to the rule. Eventually, the selfish CF character picks a side in the cosmic fight (or fades from relevance) and the noble S&S either dies a hero or lives long enough to become disillusioned (or the villain to complete the phrase). I think it is in this light that D&D's S&S roots shine through. D&D was originally not all that interested in saving the world or defeating evil. It cared about amassing power (via levels, magic, or gold) and living One More Day. Of course, D&D always had a paradoxical relationship between these two mediums, which embraced Vance's magic and Moorcock's moral system but also Tolkien's races and rangers and Malory's Arthurian Knights as player options. Clearly, even as far back as OD&D there was conflict between the brooding barbarian on his throne and the questing knight searching for holy relics. So to me, the greater divide is between an optimistic view of the world (one rooted more in Christan views of grace, fall and redemption) and a pessimistic view (where no greater cause than oneself is possible, so people is free to live as good or as wickedly as they wish).</blockquote>

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