Exotic Huge Weapons

[DanMcS]

I'm trying to make a better pike, because the longspear just doesn't adequately model for me the weapon that ruled early renaissance warfare.

A simple solution is to make it bigger. Large->Huge makes it 2d6, 20/x3, which is better. Give it 15 foot reach. But then it's Huge, men can't use it, even though historically pikes averaged about 16 feet, a fair bit longer than the 10 ft reach weapon in the PHB.

So is an Exotic Weapon Proficiency a fair tradeoff for that kind of weapon? A 16 foot pike would only weigh about 5 pounds, and should be available to medium warriors I think.

 

[Tagnik]

my DM just allowed something that attacks like that w/ Bludgeoning.

Orcish shotput on the end of a 10 ft. chain.

2d6 bludgeoning. had to put a magic enhancement to be able to swing it, it cost +2 to add an Exotic Weapon Proficiency feat into the item magically, so its now 2d6 +1.

I'd say take the feat to allow the usage of it.

 

[Tagnik]

the reach is a bit much....

 

[DanMcS]

A regular longspear is 10' reach. If it's longer, the only way to go is 15' reach, right?

Wait a minute, I remember you; I'm not sure I want the guy with the 150 pound ball-on-a-chain agreeing with me that this is a good idea...

 

[Chun-tzu]

Exotic Weapons should be equivalent to Martial Weapons with a one-step advantage in one area. So, I'd probably allow an extended longspear that had the same stats (1d8, x3), but 15 foot reach instead of 10 foot reach. The extra damage IS too good for merely one extra feat.

I suppose you could also create a second feat to wield such a large weapon, a variation on Monkey Grip. Instead of wielding a two-handed weapon in one hand, you can wield a weapon one size larger than normal using two hands. I think there's a feat in the Netbook of Feats that already does this (I remember people talking about it in a discussion of the Fullblade).

With the two required feats to wield the weapon, 2d6, x3 to 15 foot range seems okay. But now you've got a problem: does it threaten the 10 foot area as well as 15 feet? If it does, then maybe it's too good, even for two feats.

 

[mkletch]

Exotic Weapons should be equivalent to Martial Weapons with a one-step advantage in one area. So, I'd probably allow an extended longspear that had the same stats (1d8, x3), but 15 foot reach instead of 10 foot reach. The extra damage IS too good for merely one extra feat.

I suppose you could also create a second feat to wield such a large weapon, a variation on Monkey Grip. Instead of wielding a two-handed weapon in one hand, you can wield a weapon one size larger than normal using two hands. I think there's a feat in the Netbook of Feats that already does this (I remember people talking about it in a discussion of the Fullblade).

There really are few weapon design guidelines except the size increases. I think the penalties associated with 15' reach would be enough to justify a variant longspear with 15 ft. reach that is simply a martial weapon.

If you extrapolate the 'meaning' of Monkey Grip, it should let you use a weapon two sizes larger than you in one hand; from my experience and discussions, many have house-ruled it as such. It keeps the paperwork down. A fullblade is just a large bastard sword, so it is not a good option for comparison. House-ruled Monkey Grip or a new exotic weapon option (a feat either way, basically) would seem to be the only way to do this with a semi-official foundation.

-Fletch!

 

[AuraSeer]

With a pike 16' long, you cannot attack 15' away. That would involve holding the whole shaft extended, using just your arm strength; a normal human doesn't have the leverage to make an effective attack that way, even if he can hold the tip up.

To control the point of the weapon, you have your hands widely separated, and you use your body weight to balance. This gives you the leverage to make attacks, but it reduces your reach significantly. In the D20 system, reach comes in increments of 5', so your pike is a 10' reach weapon.

Someone with superhuman strength might be able to wield a pike with straight arms, or a Huge longspear like a regular one. A feat that allows this, with a prereq of high Str (25+), would seem to be be powerful but not game-breaking.

 

[DanMcS]

With a pike 16' long, you cannot attack 15' away. That would involve holding the whole shaft extended, using just your arm strength; a normal human doesn't have the leverage to make an effective attack that way, even if he can hold the tip up.

To control the point of the weapon, you have your hands widely separated, and you use your body weight to balance. This gives you the leverage to make attacks, but it reduces your reach significantly. In the D20 system, reach comes in increments of 5', so your pike is a 10' reach weapon.

A dagge is not 5' long, but you threaten a 5' radius of squares with it.

To threaten a square, the weapon has to reach the middle of it, right? So there should be about 12 feet of weapon that extends beyond the square of the wielder. So his hands could be up to 4' apart on a 16' foot weapon, and still have the equivalent of a 3 square reach. Right?

Or, I can just say it's a longer one, pikes 18 and 20 feet and sometimes more are recorded

Chun-tzu, I have to disagree with you on that about the Exotic Weapons. That 'one step improved' thing only appears to hold true for about half of them. How is a kama better than a sickle? A nunchaku is exactly a light flail downsized one step. And a siangham is just a spear.

Bastard Sword, yep, 1 die better damage. Same for dwarven waraxe. The exotic double weapons are just too bizarre to analyze. So I'm not seeing a hard and fast rule here.

 

[AuraSeer]

A dagge is not 5' long, but you threaten a 5' radius of squares with it.

Most weapons leave your natural reach unchanged. You can attack adjacent squares ("five feet away") with your bare hands.

Or, I can just say it's a longer one, pikes 18 and 20 feet and sometimes more are recorded

That gives enough reach, but it still feels silly. I have a hard time picturing a human getting effective thrusting attacks over a full circle, with a twenty-foot-long weapon. If the wielder attacks an enemy to his north, and then gets an AoO against someone to his south, would your historic pikeman be able to swing his historic weapon around that fast and still attack with it?

Come to think of it, the D20 system isn't good at modelling medieval army tactics. It's designed for the actions of heroic individuals, not masses of pikemen or big cavalry charges or whatever. To make a better fit for what you're attempting, you might rule-0 some benefits for large units. For instance, you could house rule that multiple pikemen in formation have an effective 15' reach; then when a D&D fighter fights with a longspear, he's giving up that 5' extra reach in exchange thretening a whole 360º arc.

I don't know whether that's what you're trying to do, but it'd be one way to look at the situation.

 

[DanMcS]

I have a hard time picturing a human getting effective thrusting attacks over a full circle, with a twenty-foot-long weapon. If the wielder attacks an enemy to his north, and then gets an AoO against someone to his south, would your historic pikeman be able to swing his historic weapon around that fast and still attack with it?

That's a good point. I always think in terms of some kind of facing, but 3e doesn't include that assumption, so I have to account for that.

I'm really trying to make this for an army anyway, because a weapon with 15' reach but nothing inside that isn't terribly good for adventurers anyway. And heck, once you got it inside a tunnel, you wouldn't be able to turn it around! Better hope it includes a butt-spike, otherwise if someone comes up behind you, you're attacking them with a clumsy dowel rod.