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<blockquote data-quote="Anubis" data-source="post: 350113" data-attributes="member: 2358">Re: Re: Expanded ECL rules!Scaling the lesser powers is a bit difficult.&nbsp; +1 to all saves isn't something I think would normally be seen.The list isn't something all characters could just choose from in order to buff characters, although if the rules were expanded further, these rules certainly could be used like that and still be balanced.The primary idea behind these rules is to help evaluate monsters as player races better as well as to find the CR for new creatures you create.Humans, however, generally don't just &quot;have&quot; the powers you mentioned, and taking feats as normal would not add to the ECL.&nbsp; (Also, I use a house rule version of Epic Toughness that is ENTIRELY different.)&nbsp; Taking your example, if those abilities were &quot;innate&quot; as they are, and if you took Epic Toughness as is from the ELH, then the ECL would indeed be 29.&nbsp; If those were merely feats he possessed, however, he would still be ECL 20 because feats are counted in the HD.That's how I figured the ECL modifiers for various classifications, based on their BAB, good saved, skill points, and whether or not they got feats.&nbsp; The top tier received both fighter BAB and three good saves.&nbsp; The second tier all had one or the other.&nbsp; The third tier had neither, and also no feats.&nbsp; The fourth tier gets no skills nor feats.Anyway, the bottom line is, the ability list is for powers beyond what the character normally gets for being at a certain Level.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Anubis, post: 350113, member: 2358"] [b]Re: Re: Expanded ECL rules![/b] Scaling the lesser powers is a bit difficult. +1 to all saves isn't something I think would normally be seen. The list isn't something all characters could just choose from in order to buff characters, although if the rules were expanded further, these rules certainly could be used like that and still be balanced. The primary idea behind these rules is to help evaluate monsters as player races better as well as to find the CR for new creatures you create. Humans, however, generally don't just "have" the powers you mentioned, and taking feats as normal would not add to the ECL. (Also, I use a house rule version of Epic Toughness that is ENTIRELY different.) Taking your example, if those abilities were "innate" as they are, and if you took Epic Toughness as is from the ELH, then the ECL would indeed be 29. If those were merely feats he possessed, however, he would still be ECL 20 because feats are counted in the HD. That's how I figured the ECL modifiers for various classifications, based on their BAB, good saved, skill points, and whether or not they got feats. The top tier received both fighter BAB and three good saves. The second tier all had one or the other. The third tier had neither, and also no feats. The fourth tier gets no skills nor feats. Anyway, the bottom line is, the ability list is for powers beyond what the character normally gets for being at a certain Level. [/QUOTE]

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