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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Anubis" data-source="post: 357296" data-attributes="member: 2358">While I'm at it, I want to address my biggest problem with your system as it is, which is with the Hit Dice ECL Modifiers.Whatever else can be said about your system, I think you are WAY off on this part.Let's think about it for a sec.  What all do creatures get from Hit Dice, really?  They get hit points, skills, feats, BAB, and saves, correct?That said, shouldn't you assign the modifer to ECL for Hit Dice based on those five things?  The hit points aren't really different between the categories, but the other four things are.You give +3 ECL/4 Hit Dice for Aberrations, Constructs, Dragons, Outsiders, Plants, and Undead.  That means you give their hit dice equal credit.  Why do you consider these categories equal, though?  Dragons get far more for their Hit Dice than Aberrations, as do Outsiders.  On the other hand, Constructs get a worse BAB, no good saves at all, no skills, AND no feats.  Plants aren't much better.  Why do you equate them?Also, it's worth noting that your system doesn't even rate Shapechangers at all!Let's compare our Hit Dice ECL modifiers for a moment.Here are yours, taken from Asgard 6:+3 ECL/4 Hit Dice for Aberrations, Constructs, Dragon, Outsiders, Plants, and Undead (except for Skeletons and Zombies)+1 ECL/2 Hit Dice for Animals, Beasts, Elementals, Fey, Giants, Humanoids, Magical Beasts, Monstrous Humanoids, and Oozes+1 ECL/3 Hit Dice for Vermin+1 ECL/4 Hit Dice for "Animated Objects" and Undead (Skeletons and Zombies)Here are mine, taken from my most recent post about the revisions:+4 ECL/5 Hit Dice (80%) for Dragons and Outsiders+3 ECL/5 Hit Dice (60%) for Magical Beasts, Monstrous Humanoids, Shapechangers+1 ECL/2 Hit Dice (50%) for Aberrations, Elementals, Fey, Giant, Humanoids, Undead (except for Skeletons and Zombies)+2 ECL/5 Hit Dice (40%) for Beasts+1 ECL/5 Hit Dice (20%) for Animals, Constructs, Oozes, Plants, Undead (Skeletons and Zombies), Vermin+1 ECL per +1 CR increase of a TemplateTake a look at what these categories get, and you'll soon find that your estimates are way off.  The modifier should be based on how much they get per Hit Die, plain and simple.  Dragons and Outsiders get the most with fighter BAB and all good saves, along with lots of skills and feats.  The next level has only three of those four qualities.  The third tier has only two of those qualities.  The fourth tier only has one of those qualities.  Lastly, my fifth tier has none of those qualities.All other debating aside, can you at least see the logic in my ECL Hit Dice modifiers?  The exact modifiers themselves may or may not need tweaking, but can you at least give me credit for the groupings?</blockquote>

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