Expedition to the Demonweb Pits - any advice? SPOILERS

Mikey Boy

First Post
SPOILERS FOR THE FINAL SCENE OF THE ADVENTURE

Hi all,

I've been running Expedition to the Demonweb Pits on and off for a while now, and the party are getting close to the final climactic scene. Now, having read through the final chapter a couple of times, I'm really at a loss as to how the party are going to achieve their goal. The book provides almost no suggestions or advice for the DM - pretty much the only eventuality that's discussed is what to do if the party takes the most stupid approach and tries to absoutely positively kill every demon lord in the room.

I've been very generous in allowing the party to find out information about the various parties involved, in the hope that they'll come up with a cunning plan that I can roll with. But they're just heading straight in and hoping something comes to mind.

So is there anyone out there who's played this - or even better, run it - who can give me some advice as to how they played it out?

Thanks in advance,

Mike
 

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We ended up with the Battle Royale. My main suggestion is to give the "end boss" somewhere around 50-100 extra HPs.

-O
 

We ended up with the Battle Royale. My main suggestion is to give the "end boss" somewhere around 50-100 extra HPs.
Really? At the moment, my main worry is that the party will get wasted. I'm even letting them take along an extra spare PC as backup. They only narrowly avoided a TPK against the Charnel Hound/Abyssal Giants as they were running away from Zelatar.

Still, if the combat turns out to be too easy, I always have the option of setting more of the Big Bads against them as they escape. There are plenty to choose from :)

Mike
 

If you get access to Lesser Planar Binding, bind a Mirror Mephit and abuse the Simulacrum SLA for all its worth.

Edit: Er... and... since you're the DM... don't let the players do that.
 

Really? At the moment, my main worry is that the party will get wasted. I'm even letting them take along an extra spare PC as backup. They only narrowly avoided a TPK against the Charnel Hound/Abyssal Giants as they were running away from Zelatar.

Still, if the combat turns out to be too easy, I always have the option of setting more of the Big Bads against them as they escape. There are plenty to choose from :)

Mike
The reanimated Abyssal Giant skeleton might have had something to do with it... But overall, the party was fairly min-maxed and the end girl didn't have a chance.

-O
 

Agreed, this is a tough adventure

Yes, the Charnel Hound ALONE almost TPK'ed the group. the Jaunter was following them at a distance and stepped in to teleport them away.

For the Finale, that they are nearing, I believe their only chance of survival is to lay low all the way to Grazzt, kill him, then I'll start the squabble and hope they run away. No envoy of Lolth...

We have enjoyed the adventure though: Sigil is great fun, as is Zelatar.
 


The reanimated Abyssal Giant skeleton might have had something to do with it... But overall, the party was fairly min-maxed and the end girl didn't have a chance.

That skeleton was classic.

We did have a pretty decent load-out against demons by then. I'd figured out how to make my specialist abjurer effective against magic resistance and the rest of the team went to town. It was pretty wild keeping track of everything.
 

The book provides almost no suggestions or advice for the DM - pretty much the only eventuality that's discussed is what to do if the party takes the most stupid approach and tries to absoutely positively kill every demon lord in the room.
That is not my recollection of the discussions involving the last battles.

</runs off to get book>

I find the relevant discussions on page 123-124, where it specifically talks about walking across the Grand Council Chamber and what conditions lead to battle, which are very few (such as passing the Throne "too close", and it's a 5' squeeze when you look at the map, so it's certain). As long as they don't try and engage everyone in combat at once, and aren't displaying the demon-slaying weapons openly, and don't approach the demon lords, combat that isn't going to happen.

It does mention that players can try and talk to some of the lesser beings accompanying the demon lords. This had better go with excellent bluff rolls and can't go on forever. Repeatedly questioning every group would, in my opinion, look suspicious by itself.

On page 127, column 1, it gives a more detailed account of what happens from the time the players enter the room.

One option is to enter the Grand Council Chamber and seek an empty spot to wait, none too close to any of the others. When a demon lord returns, attack Eccozt at that time. Treason and Lolth's Fury will assist Eccozt, I believe. Since I also believe that one of these two would be the one to ask the next demon lord to go to the Audience Chamber, one will not get the summons. They must then attack and defeat Gethshuq to move on to the Audience Chamber. The four must be defeated, hopefully in two fights, within thirty rounds or Lolth's envoy comes out to investigate. The others will do nothing during the battle, per the earlier description.

If the players go into the Audience chamber and Lolth does not emerge within thirty rounds, Graz'zt seeks to discover what occurred and proceeds to the Audience Chamber. He will be using stealth on the way in. If Lolth is victorious, he gets out and acts innocent. If Lolth has lost, he gets out, announces that Lolth's aspects have been slain by the mortals, that they all did not swear the Pact quickly enough (for future impact), and then he leaves having recognized the pointlessness of the current activity. He will seek revenge on the mortals in question later, just for evil's sake. It might be possible that he will persuade some others to attack the PCs, but that's up to you.

One problem with a general teeter-totter setup like this one is that there are many opportunities for mistakes that can lead to the party's death, and given your typical party of players, they are relentlessly likely to come up. One player suddenly decides that running up to a demon lord, throwing himself at its feet, and swearing eternal servitude, is actually a good idea, for example (I kid you not). Another decides to engage all evil on the spot, just because she's a paladin.

If the players are going to be silly, they're going to die. It's hard to stop that.

You need to take charge of this encounter, think through common possible player actions, good or bad from your viewpoint, and be ready with your responses ahead of time.

Example: Player Action: The party persists in trying to talk to Pale Night after being subject to her first insanity attack. Pale Night Does: X, Y, Z.

Example Player Action: One player marches directly between Baphomet and Yeenogu, and starts taunting them both into attacking each other. Their Response: They attack the player and then, in a rage, each other. The party supports the player, or not. The player (and/or party) survives, or not. The other demons lords look on, wondering if they should do something. If the two demon lords dig into each other for more than a couple of rounds, Treason runs to get Lolth's envoy. If one of the demon lords dies, Pale Night departs by ordinary means (she only uses her teleport ability if necessary).

The aftermath of defeating Lolth's aspects is that Lolth herself (presumably at some very high CR) shows up to chase the PCs out of the Demonweb.

Having excellent healing support along is going to be critical to making it out.

Exactly how the PCs are supposed to figure out all the specific tactics? Maybe they'll have to talk to the demons after all (perhaps one is trying to throw the Pact and gives real advice to help the party). Maybe they can get a divine prophecy to help them out.

In the Nest of Webs
When Princes Pass
The Warrior in Jet
Shall be the Enemy

Yes, it's overly obvious. If it isn't, it won't help.
 
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yes, all good all good.

having the "out" after killing Grazzt is a very big DM tip.

currently, the group has a couple days in Sigil before the Council, and so is very heavy into divination. They're getting lots of tips from good old Dolgan (Moradin).

We're very much enjoying this Adventure. Sigil is out of this world for imagination, and Zelatar as well.
 

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