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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Greenfield" data-source="post: 7546872" data-attributes="member: 6669384">As a general reply:  The Elmentals in general have weak Cs, depending more on their DR.  Their attack bonuses are okay v the higher level character ACs, so they do some damage.  What they do, tactically, is provide flanks, and complicate the lives of spell casters with their expanded area (i.e. Creatures Large and up usually have Reach, so casters need to worry far more about AoO when casting.)Additionally, the Air Elemental's Whirlwind ability can catch up a PC in a wind/grapple that they can't escape from unless they can Fly (Save at the start, but nothing after that) that not only removes them from the fight, bud dumps damage on them automatically (no attack roll needed) every round for the duration.  That makes them dangerous beyond their simple CR or hit dice.  The ability to completely freeze out a PC for a time is huge.  The auto damage is just icing on the cake.Then there's the ability to kick up a blinding cloud of debris whenever they touch down, and/or to drop a carried/captured PC from just about any height they choose.  Make no mistake, a well played Air Elemental can pose a real challenge.As for the party makeup:  One Cleric of Kord, a Ranger 2/Druid 14, A Minotaur Ranger 13 (ECL +2), a Rogue 15, a Paladin of Freedom (15) and an Orc Barbarian/Sorcerer/Dragon Disciple.  There's also a Wizard 14/Aristocrat1/Eldritch Knight 1, but he's not in the game right now.Because we take turns as DM, and we don't DM our own characters, the party will be down one of those characters at any time.  Because my character, the Wiz, is the only dedicated Arcane caster, they're always light on magical firepower when I DM.The Rogue's player is used to playing Pathfinder, and keeps trying to Sneak and/or Crit things like Elementals and Constructs.  Because she uses light weapons (Rapier and daggers) or a Short Bow, the DR of these opponents renders her all but useless in the fray.  I didn't plan things to nerf her, it just happened that way.Similarly, the fact that the Elemental opponents are generally Neutral, on the Good/Evil scale, kind of keeps the Paladin's can of whoopass closed.So no, it isn't a well balanced party.  We currently have two heavy hitters (The Orc/Dragon Disciple and the Minotaur).  The Paladin can crank it up to their scale when the situation is right.  Two healers (Druid and Cleric), as well as the Paladin of Freedom when needed, and the Ranger who can use a wand, so we're okay there.  The Rogue's player seldom DMs, so we almost always have a Rogue.  It's the Wiz/Sorcerer slot that runs empty when I DM that throws them really, badly out of balance.  I pretty much can't run Swarms at them because they're light on the area effect damage magic needed to deal with them.Note that an otherwise manageable CR 14 Black Dragon becomes a TPK waiting to happen when you add the Half Fiend template.  While the CR only bumps to 17 (manageable for a 15/16 level party), it has 22 hit dice, and all of the Half fiend spell-like abilities are based on Hit Dice.  He can Paralyze the whole party (except the Orc/Dragon Disciple) for minutes at a time, no Save.  (Look at Blasphemy, it's ugly).  And the duration of that paralysis is effectively "The rest of your life" in combat with an Evil foe.  The current big-bad?  A CR 14 Black Dragon, Half Fiend.  They'e seen what he can do, once, so they should prepare.  I hope they do.Anyway, it's late and I've rambled enough.  I hope this hasn't taken things too far away from the original question:  How do you account for monstrous extras who are too low a CR to show up on the Exp charts, but which still contribute to the scene.</blockquote>

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