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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Wik" data-source="post: 4714121" data-attributes="member: 40177">Y'know, maybe that's the problem here.  I thought up "hey, what are the goods, the bads, and the uglies of Experience points in RPGs?".  I posted up what my takes were on that - I KNOW there are specific examples that can counteract my points, but I think in general, they stand more or less true.  While I hate to say it again... you disagree.  I can live with that.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />I think the problem was, I wasn't clear in my OP.  I didn't really frame the discussion, probably because it was getting late, and I had other things on my mind.  Fair enough.  So, here's the question - what do you think are the good, the bad, and the ugly side of experience points?You may love them (I generally do), but I'm sure you can think of some bad sides.***Regarding my "Table rules" - while this is a whole different subject,  table rules grow out of book rules.  And I personally think that some of the particular points of XP grow into certain table rules - that people will "level up" at the table.  Now, you're lucky if every player has a PHB, because I have NEVER seen that happen.  I have played for a long time, and in many different settings, and I've been lucky if half the table has a copy of the rulebook.  The closest I got lately was with Savage Worlds, when I bought three rulebooks (still cheaper than the price of one normal RPG PHB!) and split them among the five of us.  I'm sure I'm not the only one who has this problem.  While this problem is not a direct outcropping of XP, they are definitely related, and it is not so easily fixed as saying "Okay, everyone buy their own PHB".  It's a hobby for some of us, and something to do on a tuesday for others.  And none of us are rich.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />One thing I want to ask is, do those "XP-Less" systems really suffer from many of the things I outlined in my post?  Chaosium does suffer from the bookkeeping problem, for sure (you still need to check to see if individual skills improve), but it has the benefit that the player essentially improves in areas that he actually uses in play - getting rid of the "rewards a certain playstyle" point I made.  It is also very easy in the math, from beginning to the end (some players do have a problem with big numbers.  As evidence, I give you my STAP group, who all had different XP totals, even though they all got the exact same rewards!).  Gamma World didn't suffer from ANY of those "bad" and "ugly" problems (unless you count treasure division as part of character progression, which is a whole new can o' worms... and since Gamma World throws "balance" to the wind anyways, that's not a problem!).  ***Yup.  And that can be aG problem with some XP systems.  2e is what springs to mind here.  It used to write whole ESSAYS about role-playing, and how great it was... but the only real way to get XP in the RAW was to kill stuff.  Story awards were suggestions, but not RAW... as were role-playing rewards.  Even if you used both of them, though, the bulk of your XP was from killing stuff (if I recall correctly).</blockquote>

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