Experience rewards for greatly mixed party levels

[Mal Malenkirk]

BTW I thought I'd mention a side effect of the FCRS method that some might not have realized:

A greater popularity for magic items crafting feats. The PCs know that while they will fall behind in XP if they reugularly craft magic objects, it well never be a huge gap.

Personnally I don't mind although to be frank it didn't really came up a lot in my latest campaign since the PC were constantly on the move until level 13! But a lot of scrolls were written, let me tell you that.

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

In my experience, a character that is higher lvl has to play differently and more defensively due to the characters around him. He cant do as much as he should(can't take as much chances and MUST go for the sure shot), and he can't stand by idly and do nothing.

I mean no offense but might I suggest that your experience is colored by your perception and playing style? Is it possible that you are naturally a careful player and that if the whole party was the same level you would still play a little defensively?

I too have experience with unbalanced party.

Typically the more powerful PC would simply compensate for the weakest. And he'd compensate by being bolder, not more careful.

When it was a fighting type, he'd just throw himself at the most threatening opponents and made sure he was the main target. Which isn't very hard when you do the most damage anyway. Basically; Hit them first, hit them the hardest, let the others do their thing as they see fit.

When it was a spell casting class, he'd just suggest to the weaker PCs to base their strategies around keeping the enemies off his back while he throw the big guns at them.

And it's normal that the higher level does not earn as much XP as the lower level PCs. He wasn't as threatened. If the DM tailored the encounter level to match the party, then it's likely that the higher level PC had a cakewalk while the weaker ones were in mortal danger. And if the weaker ones do not earn more XP, this situation will persist over time. In 2nd edition, you could start a level 1 PC in a level 9 party and by the time they reached level 10 you would be level 9. In 3e this olnly occurs if you use the FCRS method.

 

[KarinsDad]

Like i used in my example before, i really dislike the FRCS method when the levels are not the same. It is really unfair to the higher classes, especially when they are spell casters.

To a limited extent, but it also depends on your DM.

Myself, I reward both experience for individual actions and in game items for characters that go above and beyond.

So, if a higher level character is keeping the party alive a lot, s/he might find a cool item that is only useable for her/him.

Another aspect of it is the reason the characters are different levels.

If a lower level character is there because he missed a save and died and wasn't doing anything that stupid, then I have no problem with the FRCS system eventually pulling him back up to the level of the other players.

The game is about fun. But, if a player is so worried that he is losing a few hundred experience here and there with one experience system over another, then I think the problem is more with the player and not the system.

One other note: I do not hand out experience points. It reeks of metagaming to me. So, characters just wake up one level higher one morning (unless they tell me they are saving experience to create an item). It works for my players and prevents them from nit picking experience points or trying to kill one more monster, just so that they can level tomorrow.

 

[KarinsDad]

BTW I thought I'd mention a side effect of the FCRS method that some might not have realized:

A greater popularity for magic items crafting feats. The PCs know that while they will fall behind in XP if they reugularly craft magic objects, it well never be a huge gap.

Yes, but this is not much of an issue.

Say you fall behind a third of a level due to crafting items. Everyone else levels up. It will take you at least two levels to catch up (typically). So, yes, you have a lot of scrolls. But, for the next quarter of a level, you are a level behind. Next level, again, for maybe a sixth of a level, you are behind. It might even take you three levels to catch up that third of a levels worth of experience due to you not catching up at all once you the same level. For example, 3rd and 4th level characters:

3 5000 4 6000 (3rd level guy 1000 behind)
3 5500 4 6400
4 6000 4 6800 (800 behind)
...
4 9200 5 10000 (still 800 behind)
4 9800 5 10400
5 10000 5 10550 (550 behind)
...
5 14550 6 15000 (still 550 behind)
6 15000 6 15300 (300 behind)

Although you gain more experience each time, you only do it for the points in time that you are lower level. So, for those long stretches in between where both characters are the same level, they both get the same experience. And, the stretches for which the lower level character gains more experience become smaller as well.

 

[Stalker0]

I think the best way to rationalize the fast experience boost of low level characters in the FRCS system is because experience is mainly what you learn while adventuring. For high levels people, killing dragons is just another day's work. But for low level characters, getting to watch fighter's bust out moves they never dreamed of, wizards casting the most powerful spells, rogues finding traps that never seemed to be there, low level characters will learn a hell of a lot faster about things then the same high level characters did at low levels without getting the same benefit.

It also makes sense that between adventures, those high levels characters could teach the low level guys a new thing or two, which is reflected with the better experience.

All that being said, I like the idea of lowering the EL for an encounter when using no name NPCS. That way, PC's can gain the benefits of hiring mercs and things, but still suffer a decent penalty for doing so. However, when incorporating named NPCS and followers, I like FRCS system a lot.

 

[tarcil]

Calculating XP

Greetings

This is why I use an excel worksheet to calculate the xp, esp for mixed groups. The calculations can give you a headache, as well as taking far too long

Look under the electronic aids section at EN World for various xp calculator worksheets.

Edward

 

[tarcil]

Excel Worksheets

Greetings again

I have modified the excel experience worksheet by Christopher Mathieu to cover all crs from 1 to 28 for lvls 1 to 20. I used the formula given in a dungeon from Monte Cook (pretty easy to use). Thus, even those CR 1 encounters are worth some xp, even though it is not enough to do more than wonder why did the DM waste their time calculating it.

If you want, I can try and send it for upload.

Edward