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Message: <blockquote data-quote="kerleth" data-source="post: 6045235" data-attributes="member: 84383">I think the reason they left out the push and knockdown manuevers was to get us to use the rules for doing it the generic way in the latest packet. That's just a theory though. I also remember reading an article where it was commented that the die size increasing was integral to keeping the damage options competitive with the manuevers. When you starting fighting things with 50-70hp +1d4 just seems a little lackluster. But knocking them prone so your ally gets advantage, heck yeah! From my experience that +1 AC is usually more valuable than an extra point or two of damage anyways. That is really a matter of two-handed weapon vs sword and board, since it could also be argued that who cares about +1 to AC when you can negate 3d10 damage. Also, sticking to a die system allows an at-a-glance difference between classes by varying die type and number. Of course they didn't do that with the rogue, but I suspect they are taking things a step at a time and seeing how they are received.  I don't remember having seen anyone actually complaining about the general application of ED (erectile dysfunction?<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f631.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":eek:" title="Eek!    :eek:"  data-smilie="9"data-shortname=":eek:" />), rather in it's application to the rogue. I do agree with your general concept, about making the rogue work a little differently. I'm going to play Devil's Advocate for a moment though. The rogue isn't just a different set of manuevers. He is also different weapon proficiencies, armor proficiencies, attack bonus, and skills. When you start really pairing down the differences between classes and how many true "defining features" there are, that is actually a lot more than some people make it seem. Spell slots are old hat. Love 'em or hate 'em all of us long time players know the score. Expertise is a shiny new thing, and it is likely that they want to keep it simple and try all the permutations that way. There seems to be a real design push to minimize the number of unnecessary bells and whistles to keep the game simplified and more accessible. I think they started at the right point. Don't jump in and sell your house until you have tried rearranging the furniture first, if you catch my drift.  Just to clarify, I'm not advocating a stamina based system as a whole. I am instead saying that a small amount of manuevers that worked that way would be fun. It would really serve to set them apart and highlight how unique they are. Also, it would then not redefine the general "at-will warrior" schtick the fighter has going on, which is a perfectly valid (and probably wise) way to develop the fighter. I honestly don't expect anything like that in the core books, but think it will be sprinkled here and there in splats. Maybe even a "Complete Wuxia" so that it is targeted more at those who won't rebel and cry for blood.</blockquote>

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