Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Expertise Dice Not Necessarily Fighter Exclusive
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Vikingkingq" data-source="post: 6000171" data-attributes="member: 66208"><p>It's not just elegance, though. I think it also includes the criteria of appropriateness/evocativeness (i.e, is the mechanic serving the class' image as opposed to the other way around) and additional value (does this mechanic work better than alternative mechanics). </p><p></p><p></p><p>Ok, but how would these varieties of ways add something new to the class in a way that another mechanic wouldn't? The Rogue already has mechanisms for improving their sneakiness and their skills - what would these dice be allocated to that isn't being covered? </p><p></p><p></p><p>Regarding the first option, if it just replicates the current setup, it's an added layer of difficulty without additional benefit. The third option is close to a gimme for ranged builds, who are much less likely to be hit than melee rogues. </p><p></p><p></p><p>Except you haven't identified any alternate uses, nor how those alternate uses would fill a gap in the class as it's currently designed. What does the Rogue need to do that it can't do now that would require these dice?</p><p></p><p></p><p>Sorry, I was thinking about the Complete Thief's Handbook from 2nd edition, which also had Mugging as an alternative to Backstab. But looking at the Ambush Feats, I see a difference between this and ED - all of these feats still involve Sneak Attacking people, they just involve switching out some damage to put penalties/effects on people (with the exception of the one that allows you to Sneak Attack next turn). Whereas ED can be applied to many different things - the Fighter can do both attacks and defenses, defending allies, or movement effects. Moreover, unlike ED, where you get dice ahead of time and then in apportioning them can choose to do different actions, these possibilities all come after the Sneak Attack. </p><p></p><p>If this is what you want for the Rogue, I'm down with it. However, I think turning this in ED instead of saying "you can trade in Sneak Attack damage for X effects" is needlessly complicated.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Vikingkingq, post: 6000171, member: 66208"] It's not just elegance, though. I think it also includes the criteria of appropriateness/evocativeness (i.e, is the mechanic serving the class' image as opposed to the other way around) and additional value (does this mechanic work better than alternative mechanics). Ok, but how would these varieties of ways add something new to the class in a way that another mechanic wouldn't? The Rogue already has mechanisms for improving their sneakiness and their skills - what would these dice be allocated to that isn't being covered? Regarding the first option, if it just replicates the current setup, it's an added layer of difficulty without additional benefit. The third option is close to a gimme for ranged builds, who are much less likely to be hit than melee rogues. Except you haven't identified any alternate uses, nor how those alternate uses would fill a gap in the class as it's currently designed. What does the Rogue need to do that it can't do now that would require these dice? Sorry, I was thinking about the Complete Thief's Handbook from 2nd edition, which also had Mugging as an alternative to Backstab. But looking at the Ambush Feats, I see a difference between this and ED - all of these feats still involve Sneak Attacking people, they just involve switching out some damage to put penalties/effects on people (with the exception of the one that allows you to Sneak Attack next turn). Whereas ED can be applied to many different things - the Fighter can do both attacks and defenses, defending allies, or movement effects. Moreover, unlike ED, where you get dice ahead of time and then in apportioning them can choose to do different actions, these possibilities all come after the Sneak Attack. If this is what you want for the Rogue, I'm down with it. However, I think turning this in ED instead of saying "you can trade in Sneak Attack damage for X effects" is needlessly complicated. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Expertise Dice Not Necessarily Fighter Exclusive
Top