D&D 5E Expertise Dice Number

[cmbarona]

I have a slight disagreement with the Fighter in our group over how many Expertise Dice he gets at fifth level. But it's a slight disagreement that has major implications. I'll be sure to point out in my next survey that the language needs to be clarified, but in the meantime I wanted to see what the general consensus was.

My opinion:
The total number of dice is determined by the chart at the beginning of the Fighter class description.
Total number of expertise dice at level 5: 2 (2d8)

His opinion:
He bases his opinion on the Combat Superiority description in the class features section:

As you gain levels, the size of the die increases (from a d6 to a d8, for instance), and you gain additional dice, as noted on the Fighter table.

Thus, that d6 he begins with becomes d8 at level 2, d10 at level 3, and IN ADDITION he gains the dice listed in the Fighter table.
Total number of expertise dice at level 5: 6 (2d8, 1d10, 2d12, 2d6 [1d12 at 4 becomes 2d6 at 5])

So, can I get an EN World weigh-in?

 

[Bran Mak Morn]

Your opinion is correct

 

[cmbarona]

Your opinion is correct

Lol, thanks, but I was wondering if there was something more specific I could point to. Perhaps people could help me brainstorm language that would be less ambiguous that I could suggest in my next survey, or something of that sort.

Right off the top of my head, his take on it leads down an unrealistic road. What happens to that 2d6 at level 6? Why don't they include a progression chart if that is their intent?

For a fix, I think adding a couple of "may"s in there would do the trick:

As you gain levels, the size of the die [may increase] (from a d6 to a d8, for instance), and you [may] gain additional dice, as noted on the Fighter table.

 

[tlantl]

The chart stops at level 5. until they give us the next five levels we do not know what the progression is going to be. I would assume that at some point , probably at level seven the die size and number of dice will increase.

The fighter's cs dice chart is the number available at each level not a cumulative total. Your DM should just make the ruling and leave it at that. If you are said DM inform your player that regardless of what he thinks he's wrong.

By the end of next week we should have the rules up to level 10 then I'm sure that the guy playing the fighter is going to hatch some other scheme to get extra dice out of the system.

As I see it, the language of the play test packet is very clear on this subject and not open to interpretation.

 

[Jester David]

Ask him if he really thinks it's reasonable for him to deal seven extra dice of damage every round.

 

[Chris_Nightwing]

The key phrasing is 'as you gain levels ... x happens" - this is a generic statement. If they intended the dice to increase in size every level then it would read "when you gain a level ... x happens".

Further, if the progression chart was intended to be cumulative, then it would read 'Expertise Die', implying that each level you gained a new die. As it reads 'Expertise Dice' it's pretty clear that this column indicates your sum total of available dice for each level.

 

[B.T.]

You gain a single expertise die, a d6. You can spend an expertise die to use a combat maneuver that you have mastered. A maneuver involves either rolling the die or simply expending it.

...As you gain levels, the size of the die increases (from a d6 to a d8, for instance), and you gain additional dice, as noted on the Fighter table.​

It's pretty clear-cut. You gain 1d6 at first level. This is reflected by the 1d6 on the fighter table. If your friend were right, the fighter would have 2d6 expertise dice at first level. I don't know how he's interpreting it in his fashion except munchkin stupidity.​