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Message: <blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 6047154" data-attributes="member: 2067">So, I think I'm beginning to understand something about how 5e might have to work to keep folks happy: game mechanics can't be tied inherently to classes at the system level anymore.The wizard/warlock/sorcerer stuff makes this pretty clear: some folks want no vancian magic, others want all vancian magic, some want spell points, some want recharges, some want at-wills.But the rogue/fighter stuff ALSO makes this pretty clear. Not everyone wants to use Expertise Dice for those classes. A "simple fighter" and a "simple rogue" still need to exist. What is interesting to me is that this is actually the same issue. Expertise Dice are just another power-management-mechanic. You could replace them with a Vancian slots system (though that might not make a lot of in-world sense), a points system (spell points = endurance points), a recharge system, etc. Expertise Dice could also be used for magical classes: you could have a sorcerer who adds dice onto blasts of fire, or a cleric that uses them for healing.This might mean that 5e, while it might have a "default" (and the default will probably be the easiest and simplest model), is not going to be tethered to any specific class mechanics.Want your fighter to use slots? Want your cleric to use expertise dice? Want every class to use the same points system? 5e probably has got your back.This means that, on the one hand, class and mechanics are not necessarily tightly tied together. Expertise Dice won't necessarily be "the fighter thing," because any class could use them. HOWEVER, the trick is that with big DM empowerment, you can mandate mechanics for certain classes in your own games.Want wizards to be vancian and fighters to be simple attackers? Yeah, that's possible. Want fighters to be endurance-point based and wizards to be recharged? Yeah, that's possible, too. Want to make everyone dead simple for your six year old's birthday party? Easy peasy. This sounds -- potentially -- like one of the most interesting innovations in 5e. The ability mix and match mechanics and classes would be an unmatched versatility and option boon. It would also be easy to slot in new systems -- something like the 3e Tome of Magic or Tome of Battle systems, the psionics system, or the incarnum system. These wouldn't need to have their own classes -- rather than play a "warblade," you could play a fighter who used warblade mechanics. It makes it easy to swap out magic systems, too: instead of being a "Defilier" or "Preserver," dark sun arcane magicians now have to use a deeper underlying system. Conceptually, you could have a world where Fighters and Rogues were all ki-based! Or a world where they all had to have supernatural patrons that taught them combat arts! The "default mode" (made for newbies) is likely to involve a bit of the big ones that have been used in various editions (at-will, vancian, expertise dice likely...), but is also likely to be very simple. Maybe your fighter has two options, maybe your wizard has two spells, maybe your rogue can hide and stab, maybe your cleric can heal and buff. That's the basic D&D game. But underpinning that is a place where the DM or the player can decide what the mechanics exist in their games and in their classes. Potentially, this is awesome, and also potentially, it means we can stop fighting over the "TRUE VERSION" of a given class (*cough*wizard*cough*) knowing that the version at our tables can be that true version without having to impose it on anyone else. And that's bound to be good for people who take their make-believe princess pretend game very seriously. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></blockquote>

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