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Expertise Dice = Vancian Magic = ADEU
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<blockquote data-quote="GnomeWorks" data-source="post: 6047719" data-attributes="member: 162"><p>I'd argue that to maintain the idea of "class," it must retain some mechanical functionality. Description is well and good, but D&D has always been a relatively mechanically-heavy game, and attempting to divorce the crunch from the fluff - to this extreme - doesn't seem tenable.</p><p></p><p>However, how many editions have had variant casting systems? I know my group experimented with spell point systems in 2e, there were all kinds of variant magic systems in 3e, and I'm not sure about 4e. But the idea has existed - seemingly - all along: if you don't want Vancian casting, you can implement some other system.</p><p></p><p>Slot-based, point-based, AEDU. If you can find a way to balance those three sets of mechanics against each other, then ensure that - within a given class's "powers" (in the 4e sense) - the mechanics they overlay are balanced, you could reasonably replace any of the frameworks for another.</p><p></p><p>This would allow the idea of a 1e-style fighter and 4e-style fighter existing at the same table: I'd hazard that expertise dice are essentially a martial equivalent to spell points, and assuming that spell points and AEDU are balanced against each other, there is no problem there mechanically. IIRC, this was one of the earliest stated goals of 5e.</p><p></p><p>It's obviously significantly more design work to get this done, but I don't think it's impossible. If you assign defaults to each class, then explain in the DMG how the frameworks work and how to assign them to a class (and you made design decisions that make such lifts relatively painless)... I don't see why that wouldn't work.</p><p></p><p>Does it complicate discussion of the game? Sure, a touch. But not overly so. In essence, "class" becomes a container for a given flavor and given mechanic, with the flavor determining what the mechanic lets you use (wizard flavor means you use spells, regardless of the mechanic you use to access them). The base assumptions of the classes, like HD and what-not, don't need to change to accommodate this.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="GnomeWorks, post: 6047719, member: 162"] I'd argue that to maintain the idea of "class," it must retain some mechanical functionality. Description is well and good, but D&D has always been a relatively mechanically-heavy game, and attempting to divorce the crunch from the fluff - to this extreme - doesn't seem tenable. However, how many editions have had variant casting systems? I know my group experimented with spell point systems in 2e, there were all kinds of variant magic systems in 3e, and I'm not sure about 4e. But the idea has existed - seemingly - all along: if you don't want Vancian casting, you can implement some other system. Slot-based, point-based, AEDU. If you can find a way to balance those three sets of mechanics against each other, then ensure that - within a given class's "powers" (in the 4e sense) - the mechanics they overlay are balanced, you could reasonably replace any of the frameworks for another. This would allow the idea of a 1e-style fighter and 4e-style fighter existing at the same table: I'd hazard that expertise dice are essentially a martial equivalent to spell points, and assuming that spell points and AEDU are balanced against each other, there is no problem there mechanically. IIRC, this was one of the earliest stated goals of 5e. It's obviously significantly more design work to get this done, but I don't think it's impossible. If you assign defaults to each class, then explain in the DMG how the frameworks work and how to assign them to a class (and you made design decisions that make such lifts relatively painless)... I don't see why that wouldn't work. Does it complicate discussion of the game? Sure, a touch. But not overly so. In essence, "class" becomes a container for a given flavor and given mechanic, with the flavor determining what the mechanic lets you use (wizard flavor means you use spells, regardless of the mechanic you use to access them). The base assumptions of the classes, like HD and what-not, don't need to change to accommodate this. [/QUOTE]
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