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<blockquote data-quote="Tovec" data-source="post: 6051134" data-attributes="member: 95493"><p>From what I'm reading from WotC, it is.</p><p></p><p></p><p>What are these power sources of which you speak? [/sarcasm] But seriously, primal?</p><p></p><p></p><p>I only partially disagree here. I can think of a few fringe cases, namely paladin and ranger, where they should be primarily martial classes and need some spells. I'll certainly agree that they shouldn't have a full progression in ED and a full progression in spells. Part progressions don't bother me.</p><p></p><p></p><p>A. He is martial.</p><p>B. Explain power sources without using 4e terms, as (iirc) it was a 4e creation only.</p><p>C. Who says?</p><p>D. If his main schtick is to fight, usually in melee, and he does this regularly then he should have something to show his escalating proficiency in it.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I can't believe how much I disagree or think the opposite about somethings you say Marty. I very much DON'T think that fighter should be the only one who can parry. Unless they redefine parry to be something completely other than it is in our reality.</p><p></p><p>I don't have a problem with block being a shield only ability, it is a defining characteristic of the shield. But parrying is something that you can do if you are trained to fight with a weapon.</p><p></p><p></p><p>What kind of unique talent exactly? What should the fighter do that no one else can do? What is a 'fighter' anyway? How does that essential quality of fighter mean he can do something without anyone else being able to do it to? I'm sure all of these can be answered but I want to know what your answers are. I think my answers to these might surprise you.</p><p></p><p></p><p>First, I want to say that I can understand this playstyle and even why you would want to do it. I just want to add that it is not at all the kind of game I want to play. So I think that they need to be careful not to force my preference on you or your preference on me, but instead give options for both in a reasonably balanced way.</p><p></p><p>Second, you defined paladin by his mount but fighters are the only ones who can jump from their saddle onto enemies with a thunderous crash?</p><p></p><p>Third, all of these abilities fit much better in a superhero kind of game than in a typical fantasy game. At least, in my experience. That isn't a bad thing, but it is different enough that I don't think it should be standard.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Actually, I think this is part of the problems with ED for me. I can't count how many times have I seen that maneuver X <em>IS</em> better than maneuver Y 99.9 times out of 100. If something is going to be an option then it should be a real option. That's why I think they have missed the mark with ED and need to go back the drawing board and think up something new. The ED does one thing but they are trying to make it do everything and that's where they run into problems. Maybe it should be fighter only, but I think in that case it shouldn't work anything like it does now. Maybe it needs to replace BAB from previous editions, but in that case they're doing it wrong (imho).</p><p></p><p></p><p>Agreed, can't XP you again sadly.</p><p></p><p>Bloat is bloat, this form is as bad as any other.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tovec, post: 6051134, member: 95493"] From what I'm reading from WotC, it is. What are these power sources of which you speak? [/sarcasm] But seriously, primal? I only partially disagree here. I can think of a few fringe cases, namely paladin and ranger, where they should be primarily martial classes and need some spells. I'll certainly agree that they shouldn't have a full progression in ED and a full progression in spells. Part progressions don't bother me. A. He is martial. B. Explain power sources without using 4e terms, as (iirc) it was a 4e creation only. C. Who says? D. If his main schtick is to fight, usually in melee, and he does this regularly then he should have something to show his escalating proficiency in it. I can't believe how much I disagree or think the opposite about somethings you say Marty. I very much DON'T think that fighter should be the only one who can parry. Unless they redefine parry to be something completely other than it is in our reality. I don't have a problem with block being a shield only ability, it is a defining characteristic of the shield. But parrying is something that you can do if you are trained to fight with a weapon. What kind of unique talent exactly? What should the fighter do that no one else can do? What is a 'fighter' anyway? How does that essential quality of fighter mean he can do something without anyone else being able to do it to? I'm sure all of these can be answered but I want to know what your answers are. I think my answers to these might surprise you. First, I want to say that I can understand this playstyle and even why you would want to do it. I just want to add that it is not at all the kind of game I want to play. So I think that they need to be careful not to force my preference on you or your preference on me, but instead give options for both in a reasonably balanced way. Second, you defined paladin by his mount but fighters are the only ones who can jump from their saddle onto enemies with a thunderous crash? Third, all of these abilities fit much better in a superhero kind of game than in a typical fantasy game. At least, in my experience. That isn't a bad thing, but it is different enough that I don't think it should be standard. Actually, I think this is part of the problems with ED for me. I can't count how many times have I seen that maneuver X [I]IS[/I] better than maneuver Y 99.9 times out of 100. If something is going to be an option then it should be a real option. That's why I think they have missed the mark with ED and need to go back the drawing board and think up something new. The ED does one thing but they are trying to make it do everything and that's where they run into problems. Maybe it should be fighter only, but I think in that case it shouldn't work anything like it does now. Maybe it needs to replace BAB from previous editions, but in that case they're doing it wrong (imho). Agreed, can't XP you again sadly. Bloat is bloat, this form is as bad as any other. [/QUOTE]
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