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<blockquote data-quote="Teataine" data-source="post: 6235946" data-attributes="member: 6678036">I think the problem is the misapplication of DCs, not the numbers themselves.The character you describe, with the +4 bonus, that's what we would call an &quot;average&quot; adventurer, right? So let's measure stuff off his baseline. If an action is so simple or routine that failure would be inconsequential or boring, then you don't make the player roll, period. That 10 DC? That's where things get interesting. You set a DC 10 check, when you think that there's an interesting chance of failure. If the chance of failure is not significant (ie. below 25%) then don't make them roll. That's at low levels. As the characters level up, the once difficult tasks become routine as their skill and abilities increase. Buffs from spells and bard songs help, too.The DCs go to 35, because that is the absolute limit of possibility. Of course a lvl 1 character doesn't have the chance to do something that high. DC 25 is starting to get into superhero territory. DC 35 is demigod stuff. Go beyond that and you're bending reality. So, DC 10 if a normal person would have trouble with it, 15 if a competent indivisual would have trouble with it, 20 if a hero would have trouble with it, 25 if you only envision someone like Batman or Hawkeye pulling it off, 30 if this is Hercules or Samson territory and 35 if you think the task is almost impossible by all accounts.&nbsp;Now if it's the disparity between trained and untrained that's bothersome, especially at low levels (it becomes more pronounced as characters level up. You could make the lvl 1 bonus +3 then slow down the advancement, so you still end up with +6 at level 20. However you would also need to boost the current ACs of low level monsters or gove the, some other advantage because proficiency also applies to attack rolls.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Teataine, post: 6235946, member: 6678036"] I think the problem is the misapplication of DCs, not the numbers themselves. The character you describe, with the +4 bonus, that's what we would call an "average" adventurer, right? So let's measure stuff off his baseline. If an action is so simple or routine that failure would be inconsequential or boring, then you don't make the player roll, period. That 10 DC? That's where things get interesting. You set a DC 10 check, when you think that there's an interesting chance of failure. If the chance of failure is not significant (ie. below 25%) then don't make them roll. That's at low levels. As the characters level up, the once difficult tasks become routine as their skill and abilities increase. Buffs from spells and bard songs help, too. The DCs go to 35, because that is the absolute limit of possibility. Of course a lvl 1 character doesn't have the chance to do something that high. DC 25 is starting to get into superhero territory. DC 35 is demigod stuff. Go beyond that and you're bending reality. So, DC 10 if a normal person would have trouble with it, 15 if a competent indivisual would have trouble with it, 20 if a hero would have trouble with it, 25 if you only envision someone like Batman or Hawkeye pulling it off, 30 if this is Hercules or Samson territory and 35 if you think the task is almost impossible by all accounts. Now if it's the disparity between trained and untrained that's bothersome, especially at low levels (it becomes more pronounced as characters level up. You could make the lvl 1 bonus +3 then slow down the advancement, so you still end up with +6 at level 20. However you would also need to boost the current ACs of low level monsters or gove the, some other advantage because proficiency also applies to attack rolls. [/QUOTE]

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