Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="DrSpunj" data-source="post: 4790121" data-attributes="member: 994">Except anyone following the DMG's treasure parcels system isn't beholden to that type of schedule. For all 5 PCs to have a +1 weapon (cuz we're talking about attack bonus, right?) "by level 2" then all 4 magic items handed out at 1st level, of item levels 2-5, have to be weapons. So should that 5th player just sit out during combat twiddling his thumbs until he gets his +1 weapon with the first treasure trove at 2nd level because he's not as effective without that extra 5% bonus?And if your response to that is no, of course not, why are we discussing a 5% bonus throughout the Heroic Tier as a "hole that needs to be filled"?You effectively seem to be saying that weapons should be the first treasure handed out to all PCs getting +2 items until everyone has one, then armor, then neck slots? So PCs only get the other magic item slots filled after the big three are obtained at each item tier level from +1 to +6, like clockwork? Seems...predictable. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f641.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":(" title="Frown    :("  data-smilie="3"data-shortname=":(" />I guess I'm just not convinced that we need to ride things that rigidly, with treasure or with other bonuses. My hope with 4e: that the math is robust enough to not require<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">a 20 in your primary stat at level 1</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">a +3 proficiency weapon</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">a +1 magic weapon "by 2nd level", +2 "at 6th", etc.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Combat Advantage all the time</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">avoiding higher than PC level soldiers with their higher defenses</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">avoiding mobs 1-4 levels higher (even though the DMG recommends it for tougher encounters) because it drops a PC's chances of hitting too much</li> </ul>and certainly not requiring two or three of those or the math falls apart and the game becomes unfun for all.Now, I'm very interested in learning if my hope in 4e is well or mis-placed in this regard, and I'm not convinced either way yet. I expect some play time at levels 5-10 will help in that regard.Now, if someone is already enjoying at least a couple of the first 4 options there (which your PC is, right?), and as the DM I'm not regularly using higher level mobs or soldiers (which I'm not after reading through the grindspace thread months ago) which means the mob role & less than party level mobs tip the balance more in the party's favor for successful hits, then I have a hard time seeing that there's a "hole in the math" as you put it even with the numbers you and others have put forth (thanks for all that, btw!).Maybe that's because I'm comfortable with a PC's chance to hit being in the 50-60% range without anything in that list applying because I know with a few of them valid for any given PC in any combat in any given round that their chance to hit rises to 65% or better (especially with some teamwork helping with CA, powers, TacLord AP bonuses, stunt bonuses, etc.) and hitting 2 out of every 3 times on average seems like a good balance to me. Obviously YMMV, Nail and it sounds like it does. Would you find the game more fun if it was regularly 75%? Or 80%?What does everyone think the average chance of a PC successfully attacking? Wasn't there a thread on this very topic awhile back....Alright, hole and math aside again for a moment, please clarify what exactly you're asking for. Do you want access to the feat and we'll see who takes it? Or that everyone get one expertise feat for free? Or that we give everyone a flat +1 to all attacks for free (climbing appropriately as written in Paragon & Epic tiers assuming we ever make it there!) and ban the feats as unnecessary?If it's either of the former you're okay taxing a Paladin twice until they get a Holy Avenger? Or that Caz'n the Dragonborn's breath weapon attack doesn't enjoy the same benefit? Or Shield Push?And for the record, the problem I have with tentatively allowing feats or something else in a game like this is revoking it rarely goes well. Some people will really like it, others won't care, either way when trying to get rid of a player bonus it can easily be interpreted as the DM or another player unhappy with it as being arbitrary and "ruining my fun". Taking something away from the game is easy to do, but it rarely makes everyone around the table happy, IME, and that's counterproductive to our goals of having a good time! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></blockquote>

Verification