Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Expertise justification?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Intense_Interest" data-source="post: 4791846" data-attributes="member: 65904"><p>Alright, but what about the case player that really, really wants to make a "Quick Draw" character, mostly for reasons of Role-playing (or other feat-covered possible aspect of a character, such as dual-wielding Wands or having an off-hand Shortsword). Is it a "Feat Tax" because he feels it necessary to spend a feat on a choice to do something specific, and that it is better than all other feats?</p><p></p><p>Because that is what the Expertise-class feats are- a choice to be pretty darn good at a certain aspect of your character. The single feat "tax" isn't out-and-out better to choose for a character that mixes-and-matches power selection, such as a Cleric or Bard or even a Dragonborn Bullrush specialist. </p><p></p><p>The problem with the math is, and here is the shocker, that <u>the game gets harder as you go up in levels</u>. And the Tax is there because if you really want to, you can reduce the difficulty hitting with your Signature Cool Moves at a cost of not having more "Cool" aspects of your character through feats. Yes, I understand that this is a value-judgement based on how the game can be more challenging as you go through the tiers without being less fun, but there it is- a philosophical disagreement to the idea of the Math and related Feat Tax being a "flaw" rather than a patch for certain groups of players.</p><p></p><p>Due diligence here: I DM a campaign where I instituted the "+1 to hit at 5th level, scales at 15/25" house-rule. However, I found it necessary because 5 out of 7 players aren't even half optimized, and won't be able to power through some of the higher-level rounds without being frustrated by missing their flashy Daily powers.</p><p></p><p>I don't think I'm in the wrong, or even contridict my philosphy, because currently I have, with their "worst" feat in parenthesis:</p><p></p><p></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">16 STR 18 DEX Eladrin fighter with a Longsword (Eladrin Fighting Style)</li> </ul><p></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">18 INT 15 DEX 14 CON Eladrin Staff Wizard focused on Cold spells (Bitter Blizzard)</li> </ul><p></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">17 STR dwarf fighter wielding a Fullblade (Quick Draw)</li> </ul><p></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Optimal-stated Elf "Swashbuckler" Rogue (Superior Profiency: Rapier)</li> </ul><p></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Optimal-stated Halfing Sorcerer, suicidal (no Leather Proficency)</li> </ul><p>and</p><p></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Optimal-stated Half-Elf Valorus Bard (the Extra Group Diplomacy Bonus feat)</li> </ul><p></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Lucky-Rolled (DM sighted) Dragonborn Paladin that swapped out from a badly-rolled Goliath Barbarian. 3 17s, 13, 14, 15. Not getting tailor-dropped magical items, pretty much.</li> </ul></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Intense_Interest, post: 4791846, member: 65904"] Alright, but what about the case player that really, really wants to make a "Quick Draw" character, mostly for reasons of Role-playing (or other feat-covered possible aspect of a character, such as dual-wielding Wands or having an off-hand Shortsword). Is it a "Feat Tax" because he feels it necessary to spend a feat on a choice to do something specific, and that it is better than all other feats? Because that is what the Expertise-class feats are- a choice to be pretty darn good at a certain aspect of your character. The single feat "tax" isn't out-and-out better to choose for a character that mixes-and-matches power selection, such as a Cleric or Bard or even a Dragonborn Bullrush specialist. The problem with the math is, and here is the shocker, that [U]the game gets harder as you go up in levels[/U]. And the Tax is there because if you really want to, you can reduce the difficulty hitting with your Signature Cool Moves at a cost of not having more "Cool" aspects of your character through feats. Yes, I understand that this is a value-judgement based on how the game can be more challenging as you go through the tiers without being less fun, but there it is- a philosophical disagreement to the idea of the Math and related Feat Tax being a "flaw" rather than a patch for certain groups of players. Due diligence here: I DM a campaign where I instituted the "+1 to hit at 5th level, scales at 15/25" house-rule. However, I found it necessary because 5 out of 7 players aren't even half optimized, and won't be able to power through some of the higher-level rounds without being frustrated by missing their flashy Daily powers. I don't think I'm in the wrong, or even contridict my philosphy, because currently I have, with their "worst" feat in parenthesis: [LIST] [*]16 STR 18 DEX Eladrin fighter with a Longsword (Eladrin Fighting Style) [/LIST] [LIST] [*]18 INT 15 DEX 14 CON Eladrin Staff Wizard focused on Cold spells (Bitter Blizzard) [/LIST] [LIST] [*]17 STR dwarf fighter wielding a Fullblade (Quick Draw) [/LIST] [LIST] [*]Optimal-stated Elf "Swashbuckler" Rogue (Superior Profiency: Rapier) [/LIST] [LIST] [*]Optimal-stated Halfing Sorcerer, suicidal (no Leather Proficency) [/LIST] and [LIST] [*]Optimal-stated Half-Elf Valorus Bard (the Extra Group Diplomacy Bonus feat) [/LIST] [LIST] [*]Lucky-Rolled (DM sighted) Dragonborn Paladin that swapped out from a badly-rolled Goliath Barbarian. 3 17s, 13, 14, 15. Not getting tailor-dropped magical items, pretty much. [/LIST] [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Expertise justification?
Top