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<blockquote data-quote="Robert_Goodfellow" data-source="post: 4806670" data-attributes="member: 83922"><p><strong>There is a debate... really?</strong></p><p></p><p>When you look at the math it's a simple question of how soon can I buy it, not a matter of if I should. I'd also say that you DM is being a true butt-head if he is trying to ban it.</p><p></p><p>The power creep hasn't taken a hold yet (outside of Forgotten Realms), so I wouldn't fear that yet.</p><p></p><p>It seems to me that this feat was indeed a stealth errata.</p><p></p><p>As a player and DM I looked at the chances to hit and was very very very annoyed at how low the chance for success is. They already lowered the DC of more skill/ability checks when realizing that the DCs were WAY too high. I still don't think that the hit % is acceptable even with the presence of Weapon/Impliment Expertise.</p><p></p><p>WotC's feeling is that a min-maxed character will be super cool at a 60% chance to hit. I completely disagree with this mentality, but that is a personal opinion and not necessarily a sign of bad game design.</p><p></p><p>In theory the game will be mostly played between 5th and 25th level. As such, if the numbers of the game are balanced for those levels then I consider the system a success. But in fact the game becomes less balanced with every level you gain.</p><p></p><p>They have established +Hit as the most expensive of all the modifications in the game. I would argue to a ridiculous degree, but that's for another thread.</p><p></p><p>I think it's irresponsible of your DM to be affraid of his characters success rate. That's a sign of an innability to balance encounters well. I want my players to win, but I don't want to give it to them.</p><p></p><p>I love the feeling of seeing my players walk out of a fight they were certain they were going to loose, but some how made it through tooth and nail. I especially love this feeling if I know that I did not pull any punches or give them any hand outs. They won the fight out of tenacity, creativity, good character design and teamwork.</p><p></p><p>I think that as the game stands it is not possible to make an actually balanced character due to the break down of the basic math of the game. The only way that I think this can be truely fixed is to adjust the numbers on the monster's defenses and attacks. This is way too much work for most DMs though and so I suggest just giving your players a free Weapon/Implement Expertise.</p><p></p><p>That's what I do as a DM. I'm still debating of if I should give it out at 1st level or 6th.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Robert_Goodfellow, post: 4806670, member: 83922"] [b]There is a debate... really?[/b] When you look at the math it's a simple question of how soon can I buy it, not a matter of if I should. I'd also say that you DM is being a true butt-head if he is trying to ban it. The power creep hasn't taken a hold yet (outside of Forgotten Realms), so I wouldn't fear that yet. It seems to me that this feat was indeed a stealth errata. As a player and DM I looked at the chances to hit and was very very very annoyed at how low the chance for success is. They already lowered the DC of more skill/ability checks when realizing that the DCs were WAY too high. I still don't think that the hit % is acceptable even with the presence of Weapon/Impliment Expertise. WotC's feeling is that a min-maxed character will be super cool at a 60% chance to hit. I completely disagree with this mentality, but that is a personal opinion and not necessarily a sign of bad game design. In theory the game will be mostly played between 5th and 25th level. As such, if the numbers of the game are balanced for those levels then I consider the system a success. But in fact the game becomes less balanced with every level you gain. They have established +Hit as the most expensive of all the modifications in the game. I would argue to a ridiculous degree, but that's for another thread. I think it's irresponsible of your DM to be affraid of his characters success rate. That's a sign of an innability to balance encounters well. I want my players to win, but I don't want to give it to them. I love the feeling of seeing my players walk out of a fight they were certain they were going to loose, but some how made it through tooth and nail. I especially love this feeling if I know that I did not pull any punches or give them any hand outs. They won the fight out of tenacity, creativity, good character design and teamwork. I think that as the game stands it is not possible to make an actually balanced character due to the break down of the basic math of the game. The only way that I think this can be truely fixed is to adjust the numbers on the monster's defenses and attacks. This is way too much work for most DMs though and so I suggest just giving your players a free Weapon/Implement Expertise. That's what I do as a DM. I'm still debating of if I should give it out at 1st level or 6th. [/QUOTE]
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