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<blockquote data-quote="GMforPowergamers" data-source="post: 4812128" data-attributes="member: 67338"><p>It was my example of it working as intended...so fine I win, my example showed it could still be done...</p><p></p><p></p><p> really i still see it s doable... infact as you said a 1,000+ year old dragon should be a killer...and it is, but it is still beatable (althoug hard)</p><p></p><p></p><p> you appear to be missing that he does not have to...</p><p></p><p> except not every power in the book needs to hit, some have miss lines, others have effect lines, some have both, and you get more and mor eof those options as yu level... so well your math says it is harder to hit...I say it is not impposble to win, infact it is still easy enough to win that we have an op board making 1 man parties.... </p><p></p><p></p><p> what it is, is a chance to rally behind the moments to land telling blows...to set eachother up for big attacks...to be able to be the big shots, well others are missing or hitting...</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p> it is alway not worth discussing things that disprove your problems...becuse if we discuse the whole system togather, instead of peiceing out just the d20 att Vs Def part...the n your argument falls apart...</p><p></p><p> As you level you gain inpower...very quickly...you gain more encounter and daily power, you swap out the ones you do have for bigger ones, your at will scale to be more deadly (Heck even your basic att does)... Over the cource of 1-30 you tripple your daily magic item usage (ok maybe not exaclty with mile stones adding +1 but close enough) You heal more, you have better defences, you have better attacks, you have powers that can do damage just for the enemy doing somehting (Starting adj, entering a zone, to name a few) you go from having one or two magic items each (low heroic say 1-3 level were most PCS have 1 maybe 2 good items, and 1 maybe two ok ones) to being a walking magic christmas tree (Yea cause they got rid of that right...) with atleast a good portion of your body slots filled, and powerful efffects... You get (inless you paragon multi) a new use for action points, and a few new class abilities, heck at 24+ most PCs self res in one way shape or form...</p><p></p><p> and yet the monsters are not that much better, they hit harder and more often, but still most do not heal, and look at thew dragon example, howmany options does he have at level 30 compaired to level 7??? very samml jump...</p><p></p><p> and lets not also forget that you are basing this on playing from lv 1-lv 30 that lv 30 is harder, but in real life you are better with your characters becuse you have 30 levels of real world experaince in it...</p><p></p><p> the warlord example was a responce to people saying Buffs could not count becuse you had to hit, I showed they could be given without hittting, now the problem is it isn't lasting long engough...what was the phrase, moveing goal posts???</p><p></p><p> again and again you claim math show the whole story, but you do not take anything but Att Vs Def inbto ecount...show me tthe math that takes scaleing damge,, and scaling options, and non attack rool damge into account...then I will listen to your math...</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="GMforPowergamers, post: 4812128, member: 67338"] It was my example of it working as intended...so fine I win, my example showed it could still be done... really i still see it s doable... infact as you said a 1,000+ year old dragon should be a killer...and it is, but it is still beatable (althoug hard) you appear to be missing that he does not have to... except not every power in the book needs to hit, some have miss lines, others have effect lines, some have both, and you get more and mor eof those options as yu level... so well your math says it is harder to hit...I say it is not impposble to win, infact it is still easy enough to win that we have an op board making 1 man parties.... what it is, is a chance to rally behind the moments to land telling blows...to set eachother up for big attacks...to be able to be the big shots, well others are missing or hitting... it is alway not worth discussing things that disprove your problems...becuse if we discuse the whole system togather, instead of peiceing out just the d20 att Vs Def part...the n your argument falls apart... As you level you gain inpower...very quickly...you gain more encounter and daily power, you swap out the ones you do have for bigger ones, your at will scale to be more deadly (Heck even your basic att does)... Over the cource of 1-30 you tripple your daily magic item usage (ok maybe not exaclty with mile stones adding +1 but close enough) You heal more, you have better defences, you have better attacks, you have powers that can do damage just for the enemy doing somehting (Starting adj, entering a zone, to name a few) you go from having one or two magic items each (low heroic say 1-3 level were most PCS have 1 maybe 2 good items, and 1 maybe two ok ones) to being a walking magic christmas tree (Yea cause they got rid of that right...) with atleast a good portion of your body slots filled, and powerful efffects... You get (inless you paragon multi) a new use for action points, and a few new class abilities, heck at 24+ most PCs self res in one way shape or form... and yet the monsters are not that much better, they hit harder and more often, but still most do not heal, and look at thew dragon example, howmany options does he have at level 30 compaired to level 7??? very samml jump... and lets not also forget that you are basing this on playing from lv 1-lv 30 that lv 30 is harder, but in real life you are better with your characters becuse you have 30 levels of real world experaince in it... the warlord example was a responce to people saying Buffs could not count becuse you had to hit, I showed they could be given without hittting, now the problem is it isn't lasting long engough...what was the phrase, moveing goal posts??? again and again you claim math show the whole story, but you do not take anything but Att Vs Def inbto ecount...show me tthe math that takes scaleing damge,, and scaling options, and non attack rool damge into account...then I will listen to your math... [/QUOTE]
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