NOW LIVE! Today's the day you meet your new best friend. You don’t have to leave Wolfy behind... In 'Pets & Sidekicks' your companions level up with you!

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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Aberzanzorax" data-source="post: 4766277" data-attributes="member: 64209">I'm trying hard not to start a flame war here. Everyone, please be civil. This is a question that's been nagging at me and I can't seem to figure out the answer, and every thread on it seems to eventually get locked or devolve into a flame war. I'll be very careful in my wording, hopefully that will help. I'm primarily a D&D player/dm. I've dabbled in other systems, but mostly those that are as different as possible from D&D (rarely those that are similar). I started with AD&D and played 3rd extensively. I still do. I tried 4th. I dabble in it. It's not a bad game. It doesn't feel like D&D to me, though **Hides under chair. Waits until rotten fruit is no longer thrown.** Reasons include: the killing of sacred cows, vancian magic gone, nonspellcasters with "powers", radical changes in core fluff, and a few other things. I've seen debate threads on "Is 4th ed D&D". That's NOT what I'm asking here. Let's assume I'm an anomaly, and everyone else believes 4e captures the "D&D-ness of D&D". For the purposes of this thread, 4e is unequivocably D&D.  BUT: here's the point of the thread (thanks for reading this far). Given that 4e is D&D (as a premise from which to have a starting point or range from OD&D), what other systems are also D&D? Assuming that OD&D, AD&D, 3rd edition and 4th are ALL D&D, there must be some elements that extend across that more than name (certainly many people believe all of these editions to be D&D). What other systems out there contain these elements? The "retro-clones"? Are they D&D? What about the OGL/D20 third party publishers, are all of those D&D? Just some of them? If just some, which ones? D20 Rokugan? Conan D20? If not, was Kara-Tur D&D? Was the tsr Conan stuff D&D? What about other systems that are not derivatives of D&D? Here is where I need info as well as opinions, as my knowledge of possible overlap is limited. What about systems that use a D20? I know Kult does, but I don't know of others. What about systems that are fantasy based? Some potentials: Artesia, Dragonquest, Jack Vance's Dying Earth, Earthdawn, Warhammer Fantasy, Conan, Song of Ice and Fire, A Game of Thrones. I guess I'm asking (again, with the assumption that 4e IS D&D): What makes 4e D&D, but makes these not D&D (or should the fit the bill as well)? Thoughts?</blockquote>

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