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Message: <blockquote data-quote="WalterKovacs" data-source="post: 4766380" data-attributes="member: 63763">I can say that Song of Ice and Fire is not D&D for a number of reasons. (a) low magic (pretty much none for PCs outside of suggestions for the narrator on how to bring elements into it, and any magic should be costly, dangerous, etc) (b) intrigue as combat. There is actually attacks/defenses/health set up for negotiation type combats, instead of it being entirely roleplay/opposed skill rolls/etc. (c) it's d6 based instead of d20 based (d) there are tons of abilities, better compared to skills than the 6 ability scores of D&D and even a lot of other games (especially d20 modern games) use. (e) It obviously lacks the IP, and again fitting into a low fantasy setting, you only play as humans, and for the most part, you rarely fight non-humans unless it's animals.  Based on why I feel that particular game isn't D&D, here's what I think is D&D, or at least aspects of it. (a) High fantasy, or at least supports it. This means you can have PCs of humanoid but non-human races, and you can have PCs with magical abilities like wizards and clerics. This also means you'll be fighting various monsters of strange races, not just humans. (b) Tied into that is the IP. There are some iconic monsters that 'belong' to D&D like the Beholder. There are also settings like Forgotten Realms, or gods like Pelor, etc ... And while dragons may not be IP, the way that dragons work in D&D, in terms of colors and the like is probably tied up in this area as well. (c) Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, Intelligence, Wisdom, Charisma. They may have dropped Comeliness, and they may move Dex and Con around to fit better with the new system, but the six ability scores are definitely a constant. (d) Similarly, the d20 as the attack die is another constant (not to mention the system using d4 through d12).  (e) The hit point system. While recovering hit points, and at which point you died have changed from system to system, and there is now he bloodied thing in the equation, in general, in D&D if you were at 1hp, all other things being equal (i.e. you aren't also blinded or immobilized or something like that) you are just as effective as someone with full hp, you are just more likely to drop if you get hit again. Many other systems have a way of worsening you as you get 'hurt' during the course of the fight (for example, in Song of Ice and Fire, you can take wounds or injuries to prevent hp loss that would cause you to lose the fight, doing so applies penalties to your ability checks). The d20 system games were able to tread very close, since they were using the same basic system as 3/3.5 but with some parts changed, especially the flavoring. I wouldn't say that Know Your Role, the wrestling roleplaying game, was D&D even though it has the d20 and the 6 'stats'. I think the closest non-D&D game I've seen to D&D is the d20 version of World of Warcraft. Considering the IP it uses, it sticks very close to 3x in terms of mechanics, while seeming a lot like it, even though it's something different. It basically seemed like a 3.5 D&D campaign setting where the races and classes and feat choices were different as a result. It was still high fantasy, which is a key element, and was otherwise based on a d&d system and thus it would be impossible to argue that it mechanically wasn't nearly identical to something that is considered d&d, leaving only the fluff. And it does have a fighting man (warrior), a magic user (mage), a thief (rogue) and a cleric (priest), another set of d&d staples, not to mention elves and dwarves (but no halflings though).</blockquote>

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