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<blockquote data-quote="Ariosto" data-source="post: 4768137" data-attributes="member: 80487">Well, 4E does not seem like D&amp;D to me and 3E at its nearest seems a heavily house-ruled variant. I think that still leaves ample room for comparison. I'll start with some likenesses.Tunnels &amp; Trolls is quite a departure in mechanics, but retains key elements of kindred &quot;spirit&quot;. Indeed, confrontation with the former serves for many people to bring the latter into sharp relief.Traveller may at first glance seem an odd comparison, given its science-fiction basis and turning away from the &quot;class and level&quot; model. However, the designers applied exceptional insight into what made the original D&amp;D game &quot;tick&quot; and elegantly refined the presentation of basic elements.The retro-clones, along with such OD&amp;D contemporaries as Empire of the Petal Throne, The Arduin Grimoire and Metamorphosis Alpha (1st ed.), are all representative variations on the natural development of the seminal game. There was (at least in my experience) a time when one might refer to something along those lines simply as &quot;D&amp;D&quot;.Kevin Siembieda's Mechanoids trilogy and subsequent Palladium Fantasy were pretty much in the same category. The rules were more notably different, but all considered not much more than in many campaigns using AD&amp;D books as a starting point. They were still within a genus in which one could pretty easily &quot;mix and match&quot; bits from different games.Even the super-hero game Villains and Vigilantes was at the edge of that domain, and TSR's Buck Rogers XXVc was close enough to being &quot;2E AD&amp;D in space&quot;.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ariosto, post: 4768137, member: 80487"] Well, 4E does not seem like D&D to me and 3E at its nearest seems a heavily house-ruled variant. I think that still leaves ample room for comparison. I'll start with some likenesses. [B]Tunnels & Trolls[/B] is quite a departure in mechanics, but retains key elements of kindred "spirit". Indeed, confrontation with the former serves for many people to bring the latter into sharp relief. [B]Traveller[/B] may at first glance seem an odd comparison, given its science-fiction basis and turning away from the "class and level" model. However, the designers applied exceptional insight into what made the original D&D game "tick" and elegantly refined the presentation of basic elements. The retro-clones, along with such OD&D contemporaries as [B]Empire of the Petal Throne, The Arduin Grimoire[/B] and [B]Metamorphosis Alpha[/B] (1st ed.), are all representative variations on the natural development of the seminal game. There was (at least in my experience) a time when one might refer to something along those lines simply as "D&D". Kevin Siembieda's [B]Mechanoids[/B] trilogy and subsequent [B]Palladium Fantasy[/B] were pretty much in the same category. The rules were more notably different, but all considered not much more than in many campaigns using AD&D books as a starting point. They were still within a genus in which one could pretty easily "mix and match" bits from different games. Even the super-hero game [B]Villains and Vigilantes[/B] was at the edge of that domain, and TSR's [B]Buck Rogers XXVc[/B] was close enough to being "2E AD&D in space". [/QUOTE]

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