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<blockquote data-quote="billd91" data-source="post: 9287278" data-attributes="member: 3400">One problem I see with relying on things like the minion rules to handle this, is it's kind of brittle as far as the conditions where it really works. If the whole party is high level, then minions kind of work. But if there's anything else in the mix, like a high level party protecting the king and a few remaining retainers who might still be in the fight but aren't such a high level that they should be one-hitting ogres, then I've got a lot of complexity to manage. Do I just narrate the retainers fighting without letting them actually cooperate tactically with the PCs? Do I have some ogres be normal and others minions so that my high-level PCs get the minions but the royal retainers fight the regular ogres?Or would this have been better just sticking to PC-side characteristics and abilities. 5e largely does that because the ogres now remain static but PC damage potential rises. But, if you really want the one-hit of significantly lower targets, give the high level PCs the ability to do so based on the target's CR. We do that for turning undead. There's no reason that martial-oriented characters (fighters, monks, paladins, rangers, rogues) couldn't tap into that a certain degree as well, but have it be triggered by an attack they make. You could even use the same undead turning table or maybe tweak it up just a bit to add variation. No saving throw on the monster's part would be necessary since you've already made a successful to-hit roll to invoke the power.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="billd91, post: 9287278, member: 3400"] One problem I see with relying on things like the minion rules to handle this, is it's kind of brittle as far as the conditions where it really works. If the whole party is high level, then minions kind of work. But if there's anything else in the mix, like a high level party protecting the king and a few remaining retainers who might still be in the fight but aren't such a high level that they should be one-hitting ogres, then I've got a lot of complexity to manage. Do I just narrate the retainers fighting without letting them actually cooperate tactically with the PCs? Do I have some ogres be normal and others minions so that my high-level PCs get the minions but the royal retainers fight the regular ogres? Or would this have been better just sticking to PC-side characteristics and abilities. 5e largely does that because the ogres now remain static but PC damage potential rises. But, if you really want the one-hit of significantly lower targets, give the high level PCs the ability to do so based on the target's CR. We do that for turning undead. There's no reason that martial-oriented characters (fighters, monks, paladins, rangers, rogues) couldn't tap into that a certain degree as well, but have it be triggered by an attack they make. You could even use the same undead turning table or maybe tweak it up just a bit to add variation. No saving throw on the monster's part would be necessary since you've already made a successful to-hit roll to invoke the power. [/QUOTE]

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