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<blockquote data-quote="Gammadoodler" data-source="post: 9288391" data-attributes="member: 6914290">How often does he try, who knows?Is he in a party with one or more professional sneaks who could give him pointers (reasonably likely), who knows?The point is it doesn't matter how much effort he puts into it in-game. It doesn't matter who his party members are or what he does with them. Without explicit investment of an ASI or character level(s), they stay just incapable at sneaking past a goblin scout from level 1 to 20. I'm kind of ok with him remaining bad at stealth, but I see an argument for some kind of growth to reflect that hey, maybe they didn't train, but they at least picked up a couple tricks along the way.I'd expect the same thing with every skill. Your barbarian may not be a lore master, but he has been in a disproportionate number of ancient temples compared to the broader population. Your wizard may not be ready to take the mat vs Royce Gracie, but they've had to wrestle to get away from creatures plenty of times. Your ranger is no diplomat, but they've often been a party to negotiations with royalty, bandits and dragons. I don't know what the right size for such a bonus would be, maybe, just enough to keep the target die roll somewhere around consistent with scaling DCs.. but &quot;more than nothing&quot; seems like a reasonable start.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Gammadoodler, post: 9288391, member: 6914290"] How often does he try, who knows? Is he in a party with one or more professional sneaks who could give him pointers (reasonably likely), who knows? The point is it doesn't matter how much effort he puts into it in-game. It doesn't matter who his party members are or what he does with them. Without explicit investment of an ASI or character level(s), they stay just incapable at sneaking past a goblin scout from level 1 to 20. I'm kind of ok with him remaining bad at stealth, but I see an argument for some kind of growth to reflect that hey, maybe they didn't train, but they at least picked up a couple tricks along the way. I'd expect the same thing with every skill. Your barbarian may not be a lore master, but he has been in a disproportionate number of ancient temples compared to the broader population. Your wizard may not be ready to take the mat vs Royce Gracie, but they've had to wrestle to get away from creatures plenty of times. Your ranger is no diplomat, but they've often been a party to negotiations with royalty, bandits and dragons. I don't know what the right size for such a bonus would be, maybe, just enough to keep the target die roll somewhere around consistent with scaling DCs.. but "more than nothing" seems like a reasonable start. [/QUOTE]

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