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Message: <blockquote data-quote="DEFCON 1" data-source="post: 9259515" data-attributes="member: 7006">Ability checks are game mechanics.  They're a "game".  And one has to play the character creation game to get their stats together and decide what they want to focus on, and then when the time comes for making decisions on what to do in the story the player will need to decide whether or not to do things based upon the game mechanics of DCs and such.  So my "collaborative storytelling" does not remove the "game"... it just is a different type of game-- one that is based upon only using it when there's a question of success.People have attempted to "gamify" the Social pillar to match the Combat pillar for decades by creating all manner of "social combat" rules in all manner of RPGs... and they never seem to stick.  Why?  Because we almost all have realized that the actual roleplaying-- the presentation of character and their wants and desires and the ideas we come up with for argument and disagreement and discussion between PC and NPCs are easier and more powerful of a decision-maker.  Sure, you can throw in a couple Persuasion checks too if necessary, but we're even specifically told in the rules we shouldn't bother with those if in the DM's opinion the Social work and roleplaying the players did to convince the guard to open the town gates worked just fine on its own.  And we don't need to roll the dice for the game, because in that regard... the discussion between PC and NPC is the "game".And the same exact thing can be true with the Exploration pillar.  Players coming up with ideas to get around obstacles (and using the occasional die roll for a result) is as much of a game as the player and DM "arguing" in character and then possibly rolling a Persuasion check to see if they were able to adjust the other's opinion.If someone wants more than that... an Exploration mini-game that is as involved as Combat... that's what most of the people in this thread have been bandying about over the last 25 pages or so.  And hopefully they've all been able to cobble something together to create something of worth.  But if not?  Maybe my idea of just letting the mini-game concept go and instead just relying on player creativity and DM reaction to said creativity could be enough.</blockquote>

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