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Message: <blockquote data-quote="hbarsquared" data-source="post: 6040417" data-attributes="member: 4550">Okay, so I'm in the camp, too, that like the idea of skill challenges but has been unsatisfied with their implementation.First, a digression of what makes the mechanics of combat and exploration similar and different:<ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">4E Skill Challenges and rolling skill checks is the equivalent of just attacking in combat.  I roll my attack.  I hit.  I miss.  Etc, etc.  Boring in combat, boring in a skill challenge.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">In combat you have enemies that can do additional things as additional actions.  Not just "skill contests" or "opposed checks."  In combat you have: player attack, result: hit or miss, and enemy attack, result: hit or miss.  Four different possibilities.  In 4E Skill challenges, and even the current iteration of skill checks, all you have is: player "attack" (check), result: hit (success) or miss (failure).  Only two possibilities.  There is no enemy reaction that's built into the rules.  Therefore, less complexity.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Combat evolves.  Depending on how the situation changes as a result of characters' hits or misses, and the enemies' hits or misses, the characters must decide what actions to take from their suite of options.  4E Skill Challenges don't have a built-in evolution, and thus seems repetitious from round to round as you roll the same skill checks over and over.</li> </ol>My thoughts:Divorcing abilities from skill checks, and keeping "skills" more general and open (as in the first playtest packet) is a good way to go.  If the DM simply describes the situation (guards at the door, bad weather, mountain to climb), players can be as creative as they want when describing their actions.  This addresses the first point, above.  Player's won't roll the same check over and over (I attack, do I hit?), but be more creative.The DM needs to evolve the situation depending on the failure/success of the characters on a round-by-round (or something initiative dependent) basis.  Not keep a tally of total successes and failures.  When the situation changes in the second "round," the characters might need to change what they decide to attempt, and to roll.  This, I hope, addresses points two and three.  The DM has the enemies (or the weather, or the mountain) react in some fashion, perhaps rolling skills themselves, and change the situation, and evolve the challenge.So, as a rough, this is what I am thinking:Next Skill ChallengesEvery character rolls "initiative" just to determine order.<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">DM describes the situation</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">player describes action</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">DM chooses the roll to make</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">success/failure result</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">next player, repeat</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">after initiative order, DM describes the changed situation</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">players describe actions, repeat</li> </ul>A round can be a combat round (in the case of sneaking past the guards), a one-minute round (magic item attunement?), or even a one-day or one-week round (tracking in a forest, climbing the mountain).Skill Challenge Complexity and XPEasy: XP per character of Level X-1 monsterMedium: XP per character of Level X monsterHard: XP per character of Level X+1 monsterDefining FailureEasy: All characters fail by 10 or more on their rollsMedium: All characters fail by 5 or more on their rollsHard: All characters fail their rolls.Obviously, the math should be worked out somehow, taking into account statistics, party size, etc.If the party fails in a round, the skill challenge is over.Defining SuccessEasy: After 2 "rounds" (maybe after 5 successes?)Medium: After 5 "rounds" (maybe after 10 success?)Hard: After 10 "rounds" (maybe after 15 success?)Something to guide the narrative.  Failure occurs at a discrete time.  Players need to change their strategy round to round.  And success is determining not by the number of correct checks listed in the challenge, but the checks that the players decide to use in the first place.</blockquote>

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