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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Marandahir" data-source="post: 8054033" data-attributes="member: 6803643">They don't cross onto Eberron in the original 3.5e book, and the idea of Eladrin and Gnomes popping up around Eberron via the crossover spires isn't present. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the 3.5e EVER mentioned the Gnomes originating on Thelanis. In fact, the 3.5e campaign setting book specifically mentions 'Eladrins' among the inhabitants of the Fey plane (who are celestial outsiders in 3e remember; this is likely where they began to make their transition to their 4e/5e role as Feywild Court elves rather than Arborea celestial court elves) but NOT Gnomes. Gnomes appeared on Zilargo thousands of years ago, and Elves arose out of Xen'drik. The idea of Elves descending from Eladrin who came on the Feyspires was not present by default of the above. 'Eladrins' are only mentioned in context of the plane (well, Firre 'Eladrins' show up on Fierna for some reason, too), and otherwise reference the 3e Manual of the Planes for any other details (where they were considered the form of elves who had died and become celestials under Corellon's grace on Arborea, so yeah, that lore doesn't line up with Eberron).This was something 4e added to reflect that 4e PH1 had Eladrin as a core race (and that they killed the High Elves and took their stuff). Forget that 4Essentials added High Elves back in as a variant of Elf; the contradictions were astounding but likely because some people didn't like the wrong idea they got that their FR high elves had solid orb colored eyes all along (despite the sections for Eladrin (Sun Elf) and Eladrin (Moon Elf) saying otherwise…). If you're playing in 3.5e Eberron, Gnomes aren't Fey. They're crafty people inherent to Eberron. Their Dragonmark is a symbol of this; only Humans, Dwarves, Elves, Halflings, Half-Elves, Half-Orcs, and Gnomes can manifest Dragonmarks, and they're the peoples closely tied to Eberron and not any of the Planes. In 4e lore, Dwarves are descended from Elemental beings like Azers & Galeb Duhr & Eisk Jaat, Elves, Eladrin, and Gnomes are Fey from the Feywild, only Humans, Orcs, and Halflings of the above peoples seem native to the Material Plane (with Half-elves and Half-orcs adjunct) - similar to idea that while akin to Archfey, the Daughters are native to Eberron per Keith's sidebar on Page 92 in ExE. There's a native to Eberron vs native to Thelanis detail that's IMPORTANT when it comes to the lore, and its reverberations on the story Keith has been staging with the setting. We can quibble on the details. I LOVE the 4e lore, and what it brought with the Feyspires to Eberron. But the idea that Feyspires didn't alter the WOTCanon of Eberron to service the needs of the 4th Edition is something I can't agree with.Notice on ExE page 196 - Keith specifically discusses Feyspires and what 4e did with them:These two sentences give a powerful suggestion to me that the Feyspires stuck on Eberron is not Kanon (Kownon?) despite being 4e WOTCanon (and ambiguous to 5e WOTCanon). Keith all but says that they can be stuck there in YOUR Eberron but in HIS Eberron he's not going to discuss it further. That said, he DOES go on to describe that Pyla Pyrial, the Gate of Joy, which manifests in Zilargo, has a significant Gnomish population - only to specifically JOSS the idea that Gnomes came from Thelanis TO Eberron:Nope; any Gnomes in 5e on Thelanis came TO the plane from Eberron. Again, because they're a Dragonmarked people, they're native to Eberron. NOT SO IN 4e WOTCanon, so this is a place that ExE departs from previous WotC published content. Not a bad thing, just a thing.And as for Feyspires, not even mentioned in 3.5e but originating in 4e, they are still described as appearing in Thelanis manifest zones on Eberron at times (which 3.5e used to describe faerie circles, for example). They're just not anchored to them. Eladrin are MORTAL in 5e Thelanis, unlike all the other Fey, and if they spend too much time on Eberron, they'll become Humanoid (Elf) hence the player character Eladrin from Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes. How far we've come from the specifically immortal Eladrin of 3.5e, who among and alongside the Fey of Thelanis would seem the most IMMORTAL of all. These are just a handful of ways the editions clash with each other over Thelanis, the Feyspires, and their denizens.</blockquote>

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