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<blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 7483546" data-attributes="member: 16814"><p>And, again you mischaracterize my play despite a clear, enumerated starement of it. This is tiring.</p><p></p><p>I never said the rogue should get to check for advantage every round. I asked why you felt the need to restrict hiding as much as you do and saud I'm more permissive. Yes, in many combats rogues on my game can hide, but the idea they do nothing to make this happen is entirely your invention. As I've said, they must meet the rules fir hiding in a way that's automatically siccessful (I hide from the dead orc, frex, is automatic) or create uncertainty as to the success, in which case I call for a check. I apply advantage and disadvantage as appropriate to the situation, and I evaluate each situation as it occurs. Nothing about this is hiw you portray it.</p><p></p><p>The suggestion my games are boring because I don't require excessive effirt to hide is insulting. Again, you engage in poor behavior with no provocation.</p><p></p><p>I'm playing a rogue -- I'm middle of the pack on damage behind the barbarian, the wizard, and the light cleric (yup). I beat the weird paladin/sorcerer MC and the druid. In my run games, despite my rogue players optimizing heavily, they still fall behind the straight casters and the barbs/pallys/battlemasters after tier I. I contend that if your rogues are top of the damage pile, you're tge exception. White room is good for a general feel on damage, and rogues don't have it even against vanilla non-feat, no-subclass fighters. If in play you're seeing a big difference, that's the RNG.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Finally, if, as you say, high skill bonuses mean that the check is mooted so you change play to avoid that, why are you punishing players for their build choices? The player invested their limited build choices to be good at something and your response is that their choices have made it too easy so you make it harder to compensate? And you brag about this?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ovinomancer, post: 7483546, member: 16814"] And, again you mischaracterize my play despite a clear, enumerated starement of it. This is tiring. I never said the rogue should get to check for advantage every round. I asked why you felt the need to restrict hiding as much as you do and saud I'm more permissive. Yes, in many combats rogues on my game can hide, but the idea they do nothing to make this happen is entirely your invention. As I've said, they must meet the rules fir hiding in a way that's automatically siccessful (I hide from the dead orc, frex, is automatic) or create uncertainty as to the success, in which case I call for a check. I apply advantage and disadvantage as appropriate to the situation, and I evaluate each situation as it occurs. Nothing about this is hiw you portray it. The suggestion my games are boring because I don't require excessive effirt to hide is insulting. Again, you engage in poor behavior with no provocation. I'm playing a rogue -- I'm middle of the pack on damage behind the barbarian, the wizard, and the light cleric (yup). I beat the weird paladin/sorcerer MC and the druid. In my run games, despite my rogue players optimizing heavily, they still fall behind the straight casters and the barbs/pallys/battlemasters after tier I. I contend that if your rogues are top of the damage pile, you're tge exception. White room is good for a general feel on damage, and rogues don't have it even against vanilla non-feat, no-subclass fighters. If in play you're seeing a big difference, that's the RNG. Finally, if, as you say, high skill bonuses mean that the check is mooted so you change play to avoid that, why are you punishing players for their build choices? The player invested their limited build choices to be good at something and your response is that their choices have made it too easy so you make it harder to compensate? And you brag about this? [/QUOTE]
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