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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 3615914" data-attributes="member: 22779">Every so often, I see threads talking about how the CR system is broken or doesn't work, or is useless.  Frequently, although not always, these threads have a common element - an inattention to elements which change the equation.  Perhaps the poster ignores the fact that there are 3 PC's as opposed to 4, or the CR of a given creature is under or over estimated, things like that.  To address this, I'd like to explore as many factors as I can that can skew the CR/EL system.  To start off with, let's look at the PC's.PC Elements that affect CR<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">1.  Point buy.  This is something that comes up regularly.  The point value, even if you don't use point buy, of a PC has a huge effect on how powerful the PC is.  As a rule of thumb, 10 points above or below 25 point buy is worth about one level.  If you break down the math, and compare a 35 point value PC to a 25 point value PC, you generally find that the 35 point PC functions one level ahead in pretty much all mechanical areas - hp, attack bonus, number of spells (although this varies on odd and even levels), skills etc. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">2.  Number of PC's.  This one is a bit of a no brainer of course, but it does need to be repeated.  CR assumes 4 PC's.  More or less is going to affect how difficult an encounter is.  At a rough guestimate, 1 PC is worth about 3/4 of a level.  Thus 5 PC's is a very strong 4 PC group, while 6 PC's is definitely worth a 1 level boost.  It should be noted however, that the PC's individually aren't opperating any higher - their BAB, saves etc are not any better, thus it tends to make for glass jaw parties.  If things go right, they obliterate enemies much higher CR than usual, but, if the baddie is much higher CR, the PC's may not be able to affect it at all.  It is usually better to simply add more lower level critters than move up to a higher CR one.  It balances better. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">3. PC synergy.  This is harder to evaluate.  Some classes work together better with other classes.  Adding a bard takes away some front end power, but makes the whole group stronger.  Paired with classes that come with allies such as druids or conjurers, bards can be very powerful.  Some classes, OTOH, don't really synergize well with others.  Warmages, IMO, are a great blaster class, but, don't really do anything to help the rest of the party.  Adding a Warmage isn't much different than adding a fighter - it's offensive capability, but not really a team player.  (Note, these are generalizations and not meant as comprehensive truths) </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">4.  Player Synergy.  Again this is hard to evaluate but, some players have a great grasp of tactics and others don't.  If you have a group of good tacticians, then they will likely be able to deal with encounters much better than a group that fights as individuals.  To give an example, a few years back, I ran a campaign and everyone simply acted as an individual in combat.  Faced with multiple enemies, they would spread out to face them one on one or two on one, each trying to out do the others, rather than focusing firepower and using tactics.  They died a lot.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />  My current group OTOH, uses lots of battlefield control spells, tanglefoot bags, reach weapons, and focuses firepower for maximum effect.  We have been able to take on much larger opponents because of this. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">5.  Class choice.  Not all classes are created equal.  While I don't have any rule of thumb for judging this, it should be taken into consideration.  If your party consists of a ranger, monk, truenamer and rogue, you are likely not as combat powerful as a party consisting of the base 4.  A party which chooses classes on the weak end of the scale is likely a level down from the standard. </li> </ul>When I pick this up later, I'll start dealing with the DM's side of the equation.  The DM can do all sorts of things which will change up the EL of an encounter.</blockquote>

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