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<blockquote data-quote="Mercule" data-source="post: 6776117" data-attributes="member: 5100"><p>Sorry for not being clear. I was trying to make a comparison, but it looks like my train of thought got derailed.</p><p></p><p>My point really is that it's sometimes appropriate to have a "game over" condition, including the ability to totally botch an adventure to the point of being unable to finish it. A TPK is simply the most dramatic and obvious such condition, even if "fail forward" doesn't usually apply to death. Even so, I do feel that it should be fairly obvious that the PCs have "failed" the adventure and it's over -- there's little more frustrating than spinning your wheels for an entire session for no good reason. Also, not every locked or secret door should be a game over situation -- that should be reserved for (relatively) obvious decision points, just like I'd inclined to fudge the dice more during a random encounter with orcs than I am during the climactic showdown with the dragon.</p><p></p><p>I'm not entirely sure whether the "typical" advocate for "fail forward" leaves room for truly being able to fail at an adventure/reaching your goals or if it's more a matter of just having to take the long way around. I'm fully on board with reducing frustration, meaningless dead-ends, and gear-grinding. I'm <u>not</u> okay with no chance of real failure, whether the failure is hard (TPK) or soft (you brought the king anchovies, that's a crime and you'll never convince him, now).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Mercule, post: 6776117, member: 5100"] Sorry for not being clear. I was trying to make a comparison, but it looks like my train of thought got derailed. My point really is that it's sometimes appropriate to have a "game over" condition, including the ability to totally botch an adventure to the point of being unable to finish it. A TPK is simply the most dramatic and obvious such condition, even if "fail forward" doesn't usually apply to death. Even so, I do feel that it should be fairly obvious that the PCs have "failed" the adventure and it's over -- there's little more frustrating than spinning your wheels for an entire session for no good reason. Also, not every locked or secret door should be a game over situation -- that should be reserved for (relatively) obvious decision points, just like I'd inclined to fudge the dice more during a random encounter with orcs than I am during the climactic showdown with the dragon. I'm not entirely sure whether the "typical" advocate for "fail forward" leaves room for truly being able to fail at an adventure/reaching your goals or if it's more a matter of just having to take the long way around. I'm fully on board with reducing frustration, meaningless dead-ends, and gear-grinding. I'm [U]not[/U] okay with no chance of real failure, whether the failure is hard (TPK) or soft (you brought the king anchovies, that's a crime and you'll never convince him, now). [/QUOTE]
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