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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Guest&nbsp; 85555" data-source="post: 6783736">I think we have a fundamental disagreement here, but it is a secondary issue, and not going to be fruitful to debate. I don't share this view. If you feel differently that is totally fine. This is something people disagree about a lot but not a subject I have a lot of interest in discussing these days. Generally it isn't all that important what people believe on this front, it only matters when the concept of story is being used to advance a particular mode of play over others (i.e. you should do X instead of Y because its is better for the story). Subject for another thread I think. Again, if all fail forward is is setting the stakes, or setting them a particular way, I'm not really sure I grasp what it is. But by manbearcat's example, there is clearly an implied apparent stake to the failed roll (you fall down the ravine). That is the threat everyone discerns going into the roll. What seems to be happening is the actual stake (the side step) is that falling down the ravine was never really a potential outcome because what is really on the table is losing your divining rod. To me that reads like, the GM is altering the stakes to suit the drama of the situation and keep things going forward, when a more standard reading of a failed roll would be falling. True, he may have set those stakes in advance, but it is still a bit of a sidestep because he is circumventing the obvious outcome of the failed roll for a more dramatically appropriate one or one that leads to advancement in the adventure or goal (not saying this is bad, I am just genuinely trying to wrap my head around what failed forward is because as soon as i seem to have it pinned down, someone throws a curve ball). I'm not saying failed forward is a bad technique either. I am just saying what I see here, doesn't seem suited to my table and I am trying to figure out why.</blockquote>

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