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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 6784121" data-attributes="member: 29398">But the character still achieved the goal - which is by definition a success, not a failure.  Failure means the goal was not achieved; this seems pretty black-and-white to me.Now obviously there can be different degrees of failure - failing to climb a mountain could mean you get to a certain point and just can't find a way to go further, or the cold gets to you and forces you to turn back, or you slip and fall a bit but your gear holds you so no harm done, or you fall to your death.  But in no case do you succeed in making it to the top.What you're defining as "fail" is instead better termed as just a different degree of success...which is not what a failed skill check roll is telling you.  The failed skill check is telling all involved that the character did not achieve whatever the particular goal was, and it's then up to the DM and-or players to come up with a narration to that effect; and this narration is where fail-forward (or sideways, or backwards) comes in as that's where the potential for a different direction lies.Lanefan</blockquote>