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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Maxperson" data-source="post: 6789489" data-attributes="member: 23751">Because we're talking about a climb check, so climbing is what is being tested as the primary goal.  Getting there safely is not part of the primary goal, except as applies directly to the primary climb test, such as falling or failing to climb.  Other forms of safety like not dropping things or being attacks, which are not part of that primary goal are a part of the secondary goal suffering these other types of setbacks is not a failure of the climbing goal in the slightest.Which, while it makes for good story, is not a part of a climb check.I disagree.  When discussing the pros and cons of fail forward vs. standard checks, the cons of fail forward are very relevant.  The disconnect between the action and the result of that one type of fail forward is key.Even 5e (without invoking optional rules outside of the PHB) doesn't let the climber get to the top with a failed roll.  It can be a traditional failure, or it can be progress (not success) with a cost.  Climbing progress doesn't mean success at reaching the top.  Progress =/= success.  You could lose your rod and make it a portion of the way up, though.</blockquote>