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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 6789581" data-attributes="member: 42582">But these are all just statements of preference - or rather, of a lack of preference for &quot;fail forward&quot;-type play.In a &quot;fail forward&quot; game, that it makes for a good story absolutely is part of adjudicating the consequences of a failed climb check. And what you call the &quot;disconnect&quot; between action and result is not a con, because - for those who like &quot;fail forward&quot;, and are playing those sorts of game - there is no disconnect. Because there is no assumption that a failed check means a failed task. It means the PC is not in the situation that the PC (and his/her player) were hoping for, and that this is because of some consequences that has unfolded from undertaking the declared task. (But it need not have been caused by the task. As with the lockpicking example, undertaking the task might make the consequence salient - eg unlocking the door makes it salient that it is raining on the other side.)As I've already mentioned multiple times upthread, the Burning Wheel rulebook makes this quite clear for that game; and the 4e DMG and DMG2 aren't quite as clear, but (as [MENTION=85870]innerdude[/MENTION] noted upthread) make a similar point in relation to skill challenges.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 6789581, member: 42582"] But these are all just statements of preference - or rather, of a lack of preference for "fail forward"-type play. In a "fail forward" game, that it makes for a good story absolutely [I]is[/I] part of adjudicating the consequences of a failed climb check. And what you call the "disconnect" between action and result is not a con, because - for those who like "fail forward", and are playing those sorts of game - there [I]is[/I] no disconnect. Because there is no assumption that a failed check means a failed task. It means [I]the PC is not in the situation that the PC (and his/her player) were hoping for[/I], and that this is because of some consequences that has unfolded from undertaking the declared task. (But it need not have been caused by the task. As with the lockpicking example, undertaking the task might make the consequence salient - eg unlocking the door makes it salient that it is raining on the other side.) As I've already mentioned multiple times upthread, the Burning Wheel rulebook makes this quite clear for that game; and the 4e DMG and DMG2 aren't quite as clear, but (as [MENTION=85870]innerdude[/MENTION] noted upthread) make a similar point in relation to skill challenges. [/QUOTE]

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