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Message: <blockquote data-quote="grendel111111" data-source="post: 6807422" data-attributes="member: 6803870">Let me start by saying... very valid approach, I see how it goes in your games.So lets look at an alternative:1) DM knows if it is the ring or not but players have no idea. (This could be preauthored long before during world creation, decided when the ring was found, or rolled for when the player said they wanted to investigate the ring).2) Gandalf suspects it is the ring and so uses knowledge (evil ring things) to get information. 3) If successful he discovers that the ring might be the one ring and you should throw it in the fire to check. He does it and the one ringness of it is discovered or disproved (continue as your example above of it either being or not being the ring.).4) If unsuccessful he does not know how to determine if it is the one ring and so must now go and research or quest to find the answer. (this is what happened in LOR). 5) Having gone on a quest and discovered that you need to throw it in the fire he returns and does just that (but now time has passed and the dark lords power has increased). (note this could take a very small amount of table time, but might shift in game time forward a large amount of time). Proceed as above in your example of it either being or not being the ring.Going from the premise that both approaches are fine and valid here are the differences I can see.In Pemerton's example: Gandalfs player determines the way to check the one ringness of the ring.If it is the ring or not is determined by Gandalfs skill in Rings-wise check. If he is good at knowledge then it is the ring. (If his knowledge roll is bad it is either not the ring or is not determined).There is no room for "you are knowledgeable and so know it is not the ring". I realise that from your point of view that would be an undesirable outcome, but it's one I like to have there.In the second example the players are just as in the dark about if it is the true ring, The difference is that the DM knows. But the DM knowing does not reduce the dramatic tension of the game for me. Just like the DM knowing how to circumvent a trap without triggering does it, does not diminish the tension of the trap for the players (who need to discover it for themselves).I think that the key to doing either approach well is that "it's the way you enjoy playing".</blockquote>

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