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<blockquote data-quote="Imaro" data-source="post: 6811747" data-attributes="member: 48965"><p>I never claimed it was the <strong>same</strong> as GM pre-authorship... I claimed the results, a campaign world that revolves around the PC's backstory and changes/responds to the player's decisions and actions can be attained in a pre- prepped (you started using pre-authored) campaign...</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The process is definitely different, but there were claims earlier in this discussion (and that you are still making abut sandbox play) that the pre-prepped game couldn't produce the result I am claiming it can. And your comparison is off... I am not saying that through pure luck and random chance one can produce these results, I am saying by applying repeatable principles and a specific structure of pre-prep one can attain the same things an improv game can...</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Well they are still attacking the city... so yeah success is still on the table, it's just the PC will be burned while they do it. The point you're missing is that the tribe is behaving how the DM wants (and this is actually one of the differences I see in the two approaches) there is no objectivity here such as when using NPC reaction rules from D&D. I haven't made claims about "railroading"... what I've made the claim is that the DM will be pre-disposed towards and have the power to shape the outcome of the game to produce the story he/she wants. You're example of the Dark Elf... clearly shows that a Dm pre-disposed towards including an element will put it into the "story" and [MENTION=6682826]CH[/MENTION]achou has shown the DM has the power to totally reverse a situation when improving so I'm not sure what else I need to "prove"? </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Again... why I don't like play examples for discussion... it seems like nothing is ever fully explained in the example until you start questioning it... So...</p><p>1. You pre-prep all the time.</p><p>2. It's not actually about pre-prepping for a campaign it's about how/when you introduce the pre-prepped material.</p><p></p><p>Does the above about sum it up?</p><p></p><p>Now I thought one of the benefits to improv play was to cut down on the out of game work... you know that work that's not really part of the game. But here it seems as if you are doing just as much or more work, prepping material with the added disadvantage that it may or may not be used... </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>So again a demonstration that you really have no limitations beyond a logical tie to fiction (again where you as DM decide the line that can't be crossed) in controlling and manipulating the story in the spur of the moment... and yet you don't see how a DM's biases, preferences, etc. have just as great if not a greater chance as a DM who pre-preps ending up railroading at improv 'ing the game towards the outcome he as DM wants (whether consciously or subconsciously)...</p><p> </p><p></p><p></p><p>I meant they can't all be true in this particular instance/example...</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Ideas aren't fully statted up NPC's... the whole point of improv is that you don't have to do all that non-play, pointless work... yet here you are doing it and even less efficiently that many that pre-prep for their games. As to pre-authoring "fiction"... I'm not sure where you're drawing s distinction here, could you explain?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Imaro, post: 6811747, member: 48965"] I never claimed it was the [B]same[/B] as GM pre-authorship... I claimed the results, a campaign world that revolves around the PC's backstory and changes/responds to the player's decisions and actions can be attained in a pre- prepped (you started using pre-authored) campaign... The process is definitely different, but there were claims earlier in this discussion (and that you are still making abut sandbox play) that the pre-prepped game couldn't produce the result I am claiming it can. And your comparison is off... I am not saying that through pure luck and random chance one can produce these results, I am saying by applying repeatable principles and a specific structure of pre-prep one can attain the same things an improv game can... Well they are still attacking the city... so yeah success is still on the table, it's just the PC will be burned while they do it. The point you're missing is that the tribe is behaving how the DM wants (and this is actually one of the differences I see in the two approaches) there is no objectivity here such as when using NPC reaction rules from D&D. I haven't made claims about "railroading"... what I've made the claim is that the DM will be pre-disposed towards and have the power to shape the outcome of the game to produce the story he/she wants. You're example of the Dark Elf... clearly shows that a Dm pre-disposed towards including an element will put it into the "story" and [MENTION=6682826]CH[/MENTION]achou has shown the DM has the power to totally reverse a situation when improving so I'm not sure what else I need to "prove"? Again... why I don't like play examples for discussion... it seems like nothing is ever fully explained in the example until you start questioning it... So... 1. You pre-prep all the time. 2. It's not actually about pre-prepping for a campaign it's about how/when you introduce the pre-prepped material. Does the above about sum it up? Now I thought one of the benefits to improv play was to cut down on the out of game work... you know that work that's not really part of the game. But here it seems as if you are doing just as much or more work, prepping material with the added disadvantage that it may or may not be used... So again a demonstration that you really have no limitations beyond a logical tie to fiction (again where you as DM decide the line that can't be crossed) in controlling and manipulating the story in the spur of the moment... and yet you don't see how a DM's biases, preferences, etc. have just as great if not a greater chance as a DM who pre-preps ending up railroading at improv 'ing the game towards the outcome he as DM wants (whether consciously or subconsciously)... I meant they can't all be true in this particular instance/example... Ideas aren't fully statted up NPC's... the whole point of improv is that you don't have to do all that non-play, pointless work... yet here you are doing it and even less efficiently that many that pre-prep for their games. As to pre-authoring "fiction"... I'm not sure where you're drawing s distinction here, could you explain? [/QUOTE]
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