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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Imaro" data-source="post: 6812517" data-attributes="member: 48965">I have explained how.  The problem is you, as well as some other posters have this very narrowly defined defintion of what a pre-prep campaign has to be.  When others who use the techniques or play in the style then try to show/tell/demonstate that it is a much bigger tent than you seem to realize your response seems to ignore it or claim it's not "real" pre-prep or it's approximating improv (even though material is being created outside of play)...  Once you're willing to actually listen to those who use these tools in a different way you'l be able to better understand the flexibiltiy of the playstyle, but until then this is the adult equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and going... "nuh uhn that's cheating!!"No it's not equivalent.  In my comparison it is a single roll compared to a single roll (Skill check vs. percentage).  Your example compares a single roll (which lacks the variation, chance for real-time decision making, chances for extremes, etc. that the multiple rolls and rounds in a combat allow for) to an entire combat... of course there were posters on this very forum who did this (to a lesser extent) in 4e when they substituted SC's for actual combats so it may not be as improbable as you make it sound.Yes but the power is totally skewed towards the DM... the player must declare their stakes upfront, locking them into a rigid success state while the DM can choose any outcome he wants as long as it generates logically from the fiction.  I also disagree (at least going by the examples that have been posted in this thread) that the situation has to become contrary to the declared success state in some way.  In the earlier mountain example, dropping the rod is in no way "contrary" to climbing the mountain... or was this example incorrect?First I never said the DM is creating the story he wants... I said he has greater power to push the story in the direction he wants it to go... which I honestly think is kind of self evident, as I stated above the DM doesn't have to declare his fail state (but the player has to declare his success state ahead of time) and thus has way more ability to exert force on the direction of the "story". @<a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=42582" target="_blank">pemerton</a>... all pre-prepped games (as explained and shown by various posters who actually utilize the tools) do not cause a pinball experience... and that's all I'll say (again) on that matter.  You wanted a story around a Dark Elf and you got it.  Again I never said you write the story or control the story (I'm starting to see a patern here with the 100% or 0% classification you tend to use with everything)...but you used the failed check to push the story towards something YOU had been thinking about and prepping beforehand.  There may have been some signal from the players that they wanted to deal with a Dark Elf, but if there was it's  not apparent from your example (again why I feel play examples can at times muddy the water since they are often incomplete in the information they convey)So the DM creates point A... and upon failure controls point B... so the players only control point B in succeeding... is that correct? Youu haven't shown at all what (outside of the logic of the surrounding fiction) constrains the DM in forcing the story to go the way he wants to.  Even @<a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=6696971" target="_blank">Manbearcat</a> concedes that there are no rules that totally safeguard against this.  As to @<a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=386" target="_blank">LostSoul</a> 's comment... I totally agreed with him.  I suggest you might want to go back and se how this tangetn started and what my actual stance is before continuing to argue against the position you think I hold.EDIT: Fine we can use the term pre-authored...I don't think it falls into the ralm of improv either... especially not on the spot improv.Yet what you claim to pre-prep exceeds generic stats for monsters...Perhaps you should refocus your posts to zero in on this because right now we are discussing multiple facets of the different playstyles...</blockquote>

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