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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 6813415" data-attributes="member: 42582">I think you're missing my point(s):(1) If the GM is not authoring the fiction until the action resolution check has been made, then we are in the general territory of "fail forward".(2) If the GM is authoring fiction in advance - whether 1 year, 1 week or even 1 minute in advance - and using that "secret backstory" as part of the adjudication process, then we are out of "fail forward" territory and into "players exploring the GM's pre-authored material" territory.The GM's pre-authored material might be very interesting. It might even have been written to be especially interesting to the players! But the way it is being used, as a constraint on the outcomes of action declaration that the players aren't aware of, is moving away from the sort of play that I prefer. Pointing to the various ways in which material might be pre-authored doesn't really change that.I don't care about whether anyone labels how I play "improv". It's not a label I've used in this thread. I also don't know what you think is the difference between an NPC's stats and "generic stats for monsters". I don't use many "generic" monsters, either in 4e or BW. Stats are stats, and mechanically heavy games tend to need them.But substituting a skill challenge for normal combat mechanics isn't taking it out of the hands of the players! They get to make checks, expend their resources, etc to try and influence the outcome in the way that they (and their PCs) want it to be.The issue of one roll vs multi-rolls is a red-herring. A number of RPGs (BW, HeroWars/Quest, I think FATE?) allow actions to be resolved as simple checks or via more complex action resolution systems. Substituting a flat % chance for a player's check is replacing something the player can influence (by choices at PC build, and by choices during actual play - eg whether to use some sort of ingame or metagame buff) with something the player cannot influence.The player's desire (both in the real world, and in character) was to arrive at the top of Mt Pudding equipped with a divining rod - dropping the rod is a contrary result, in that if the PC continues to climb to the top s/he will get there sans rod. And if s/he stops to try and recover the rod then s/he is not at the top of the mountain.</blockquote>

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