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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Imaro" data-source="post: 6813776" data-attributes="member: 48965">I think one of the biggest blockers to this conversation going further is the inability to have an agreed upon distinction between what material constitutes pre-authored "fiction" and what is in the moment authoring... I asked you as well as @<a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=6696971" target="_blank">Manbearcat</a>... and someone else I believe what exactly are the boundaries between... fiction being pre-authored vs. pre-prepped vs. notes/ideas vs. in the moment authoring... could you take a minute to answer this as I think it will make our discussions more productive.You haven't used improv... but you've continuously pointed to authoring in the moment of resolution, which IMO is the same as improv... otherwise like you said it doesn't matter if the fiction you present was authored a year ago, a month ago or a minute before... it's pre-authored  Having a percentage chance to encounter something doesn't take it out of the hands of the players either... unless I forced the PC's to go into the area where this challenge has a chance to appear it was still their choices and actions that lead to the outcome where this roll takes place... correct?  And if it's "secret backstory" that's only because the players have failed or chosen not to find out about the area they are currently traversing.  It's not a red herring... it's a very real difference with one roll.  certain things such as multiple resources, specific combat powers, etc. can or cannot be brought to bear depending on how the encounter is structured.  As to your second point...Again as I stated unless you are forcing the players to take the actions that lead up to them being in the area (for a long enough time) for the chance that this encounter takes place... you're not replacing something the player can influence... you've let them influence themselves all the way into this situation.  The only difference is that you'rs depends on one final (pre-set) roll and mine depends on a different roll.  Also note at no point did I say they couldn't through actions, spells, etc. alter whether their chance to encounter the Dark Elf goes up or down... No the stated goal was just to arrive at the top of Mt. Pudding... there was no mention of the rod in setting the goal.One could claim you used DM force to push them into an encounter with the Dark Elf, probably because you had a desire to use the NPC you created beforehand... you decided arbitrarily what their failure would mean (encountering the Dark Elf NPC you had pre-authored outside of play)...   And to be totally honest, I'm not sure how "Dark Elf appears" is contrary to "Successfully navigated your way"...An encounter with the Dark Elf NPC you created outside of play.The GM controlled the tribe's reactions, and the player being placed in the effigies... the player created the effigies but ultimately exerted no control over anything he created after one bad roll. That one roll allowed the DM to decide where the player would end up, what would happen to the effigies and what the tribe would do...EDIT: IMO all you've actually done is  changed rule zero from being available to the GM at all times to only making it available when a player fails a roll... or needs a consequence... but ultimately you're still using rule zero.</blockquote>

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